Libertarian Party Press Release
 

I came across this a few minutes ago and thought you all may find it interesting. My favorite quote is this [ QUOTE ]
"In restricting Internet activities, I think it would make much more sense to ban instant messaging within Congressional offices rather than ban the online hobbies of millions of tax-paying citizens."


[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.lp.org/media/article_410.shtml

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

This event has me seriously considering the Libertarian Party.

From the top of their web site:

Smaller Government... Fewer Taxes... More Freedom...

You know, I thought that is what the Republican party stood for. I don't know how well the Libertarians deliver on this, but the Republicans sure as hell are not anymore (if they ever really did).

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

The republicans, like democrats enjoy elitist power.

I am one of the many 'unenrolled' and really wish Libertarians would become stronger.

Government needs to get out of our lives and do their only job....protect our constitution and our citizens from foreign invaders. The last 20 years have been a joke!

I want democracy in its truest form.....majority, majority, majority voices without suppressing or oppressing the minority. Not the other way around. Now we have an oppressive minority where special interests seem to have taken over. It's really unAmerican! The majority were use to having their wishes yeilded to by elected officials - we seem to have lost their ears to special interest groups.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

i don't like their stand on defense or i would join.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

I'm a fan of any party that doesn't like the bill. It's really my only immediate issue.

Things like stem cell research might matter to me down the road, but this issue is immediate.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

Republican = Democrat, they're both the same thing, except Democrats are a little more apt to reach into your wallet rather than into your bedroom/living room/computer.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

As a lifetime Republican, I’m fed up. This press release just adds to my overall frustration, with the two party system.

I’m contacting my elected GOP officials and my state GOP headquarters and letting them know I’m leaving the party. I will stop contributing and voting for the GOP.

Check out this funny video!

Politician Removal Service

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't like their stand on defense

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't either, but that won't stop me from voting for any libertarian candidate running for office in my voting district.

FWIW, nationally syndicated radio talk show host Neal Boortz is a libertarian who also disgarees with the Libertarian Party's defense platform. Following are his comments yesterday on the UIGA:

THE REPUBLICAN'S INTERNET GAMBLING BILL

So tell me .. what right does the Imperial Federal Government of the United States have to tell a private business -- a credit card company or a bank -- that they cannot process payments that settle bets made on the Internet?

This is a matter of freedom When someone places a bet on the Internet nobody's rights are being violated. No person is being denied their right to life, liberty or property through the placement of that bet. There is no role for the government to play here. Either we are free, or we serve as subjects to the government. Do people lose money gambling on the Internet? Of course they do! People lose money investing in stock, bonds and futures contracts also! Should we make them illegal as well? Should we forbid American banks from processing payments made to buy stock or bonds?

This is where the libertarian in me really gets ticked. We in this country are going to have to make up our minds at some point. Either we are going to move toward freedom, or we are going to continue moving toward a system where the particular group in power gets to force its moral code on all others through the police power of government.

The sponsors of this bill will tell you that families are hurt by their breadwinners pissing all of that money away on Internet gambling. Perhaps so. Shall we sit down right now and make a list of all of the human activities that can end up hurting a family?

Let's start with smoking. Smokers make less money. Smokers are sick more often. Smokers pay higher rates for insurance. Smokers die sooner. Smokers pay much, much more for basic medical care. Smokers make those who live and work with them ill. For these reasons and more perhaps we should just outlaw tobacco! Frankly, one of the reasons I would like to see that is just because I know how completely nutso the smokers would go.

What about overeating? Overeating and becoming a fat pig leads to health problems and, in many cases early death. Well, looks like we have a negative affect on the family here, don't we? How about another federal law ... this one banning overeating.


I e-mailed Boortz yesterday and expect him to continue to discuss this issue on his show. Inasmuch as media publicity on this issue is critical to influence future actions on this bill, I encourage you to contact the Boortz show: http://boortz.com/cgi-bin/mail.cgi?id=boortz

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

Im a libertarian now.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
This event has me seriously considering the Libertarian Party.

From the top of their web site:

Smaller Government... Fewer Taxes... More Freedom...

You know, I thought that is what the Republican party stood for. I don't know how well the Libertarians deliver on this, but the Republicans sure as hell are not anymore (if they ever really did).

[/ QUOTE ]

The republicans supposedly stand for the first two, not so much the last one.

Examples: Abortion, same-sex marriage, patriot act, church & state separation, assisted suicide, stem cell research, drug policy, etc.

One problem I had with the Libertarian Party was that they are going to seem too extreme for the average person to get behind. They seem to be fixing this a bit.

Examples: Ending all drug prohibition, ending all government safety nets, complete economic deregulation, etc.

These things might be good in principle, but in reality they would need to be done gradually, and in fact nothing really drastic would happen unless the LP got majority control.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

as to the 'reach into your pocket part' once upon a time dude, not anymore.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

I've proudly voted Libertarian in the last two election cycles. As there are no Libertarian candidates, I believe, running for an office that I can vote for this time, I think I will be abstaining (assuming there are no other suitable candidates).

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

I'm very much a person with libertarian ideals, but I only vote for them in specific circumstances. My vote is too powerful to use as an ideological weapon most of the time, and I want to do more than protest everytime I step foot in voting booth.

I typicaly vote for the candidate that I matches my views best or who I feel will do the best job with an actuall chance of being elected. This usually ends up being either a democrat or a republican, but on rare occasions it is a libertarian or an independent.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]

Smaller Government... Fewer Taxes... More Freedom...

You know, I thought that is what the Republican party stood for. I don't know how well the Libertarians deliver on this, but the Republicans sure as hell are not anymore (if they ever really did).

[/ QUOTE ]

The Republicans say whatever the public seems to be buying in order to get elected.

I'm probably best labeled a libertarian: I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I never bought what the Republicans were selling.

Right now, I'm offended by their willingness to subvert the democratic process. The anti-gambling bill was never able to pass on its own merits, so they found an underhanded way to still get their way.

It's been the Republican's total lack of competence that's frustrated me more than any philosophical differences.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

BTW, if any of you really do find yourself thinking along libertarian lines, you should check out the Cato Institute.

www.cato.org

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]

The Republicans say whatever the public seems to be buying in order to get elected.


[/ QUOTE ]
IMO, this pretty much describes both Dems and Republicans.


[ QUOTE ]

Right now, I'm offended by their willingness to subvert the democratic process.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm offended as well, but I knew this was done by both parties quite liberally over the years. Until now it just didn't really click how horrible this is.

I also know that the Libertarians have some more extreme views that I can't get on board with, such as the Drug legalization and other things.


I'm just pretty digusted with the whole deal right now.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
The anti-gambling bill was never able to pass on its own merits, so they found an underhanded way to still get their way.

[/ QUOTE ]

To any and everyone echoing similar comments: you do realize it easily passed the House vote, right?

Of course it sucks that it was passed and will be signed into law, but if it would have received floor time, it would have passed. It didnt recieve floor time because Senators had holds on the bill.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

This is the funniest thing I've read in ages,

"Republican = Democrat, they're both the same thing, except Democrats are a little more apt to reach into your wallet rather than into your bedroom/living room/computer."

Wrong. You pay the same amount to the Government whether republicans or democrats are in office. The only real difference is how you pay that money and what it gets used for.

"As a lifetime Republican, I'm responsible for this mess, I should've valued my personal freedoms more and put my vote toward protecting them.: ." FYP sir

"I want democracy in its truest form.....majority, majority, majority..."

Technically, this is anarchy. I'm all for it as well but try pitching it to an entire nation.

"Smaller Government... Fewer Taxes... More Freedom...

You know, I thought that is what the Republican party stood for."

Lol

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
Republican = Democrat, they're both the same thing, except Democrats are a little more apt to reach into your wallet rather than into your bedroom/living room/computer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is right on the money, but at this point I would be willing to shell out a little more in taxes to keep the Christian Right out of my business.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

My brother told me that the Libertarian party believes the next best thing to them being in power is to have split power in the government. In other words, we need the Republicans to control the House, and the Democrats control the Senate (or vise versa). I cannot confirm that the Libertarian party actually said this, but it makes sence. With split control, we'll have more gridlock. With more gridlock, hopefully stupid bills like this would have never been passed.

Right now we have a Republican House, a Republican Senate, and a Republican President. That's bad. When all three are Democrat, that's bad as well.

For what it's worth, I've been a life long conservative. I've voted Republican for most of my life. Not any more! This next election, I am going to vote either Libertarian or Democrat! And don't tell me that the Republicans stand for smaller government and less money out of your pocket. I use to believe that, but not any more. Both the Democrats and Republicans stand for taking more of my money and for more governmental control. They're both a joke. It's just a matter of the lesser of two evils. The Democrats, at least until they get some power back, are the lesser of two evils.

With that said, any election where a Libertarian could actually win, I will vote that way. Or, for any election where I know my vote doesn't matter (because one of the candidates is too popular), I will vote Libertarian. Hopefully these votes will help show that the Libertarian is gaining strength.

If every poker player started voting Libertarian, that would help. If each poker player could convince ten non poker players to vote Libertarian, then we'd really see some shake up. While the Democrats are unlikely to repeal this stupid anti-internet gambiling law, the Libertarians would.

Everyone, stop toting your party line! Whether you are Democrat or Republican, take a hard look at what your party really is. Then, maybe you too will become Libertarian. In time, just maybe we can make a difference.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]

I also know that the Libertarians have some more extreme views that I can't get on board with, such as the Drug legalization and other things.


[/ QUOTE ]

The Libertarian philosophy is simple: live and let live. Each person should have the right to do as he pleases so long as he harms no one and doesn't limit others' freedom to do as they please; however, each person must also be responsible for the consequences of his own actions.

People like you, who believe in limiting personal freedoms because of personal distaste, are why we're in this whole online gambling pickle in the first place. It is the height of hypocrisy to believe you should be able to gamble your money away but not spend it on some recreational pharmaceuticals.

MOST people who use drugs recreationally never have problems because of it. MOST people don't end up strung out in rehab, broke and broken. Also, MOST people who gamble don't end up gambling away everything they own and wind up homeless and begging.

Live and let live. It's not extreme -- it's simple.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
Im a libertarian now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
Live and let live. It's not extreme -- it's simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a bit of an oversimplification though. I don't pretend to know what all Libertarians but some--Penn Jillette for one--take it to the extreme of thinking we shouldn't have public schools or fund any medical research.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
The republicans, like democrats enjoy elitist power.

I am one of the many 'unenrolled' and really wish Libertarians would become stronger.

Government needs to get out of our lives and do their only job....protect our constitution and our citizens from foreign invaders. The last 20 years have been a joke!

I want democracy in its truest form.....majority, majority, majority voices without suppressing or oppressing the minority. Not the other way around. Now we have an oppressive minority where special interests seem to have taken over. It's really unAmerican! The majority were use to having their wishes yeilded to by elected officials - we seem to have lost their ears to special interest groups.

[/ QUOTE ]

well said

So you\'re thinking of becoming a Libertarian, eh?
 

"20 Things You Must Believe to be a Libertarian"

See if you're still interested after reading this... not a whole lot of people will believe all twenty. I'm pretty close to 20 of 20. #1 is somewhat specious - they would be too high if gov't were the way Libertarians would have it, but are not high considering all the things the gov't currently spends money doing...

(reprinted with author's permission)

01. Taxes are way too high.

02. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a vital individual right.

03. Freedom OF religion by necessity must include freedom FROM religion.

04. The chief cause of societal problems today is government solutions.

05. Government should limit itself to the powers specifically granted to it in the Constitution.

06. If you harm or endanger no others, what you do is not the business of the government. A man’s damnation is his own business.

07. The Drug War does more damage to society than the drugs, and violates the Constitution as well.

08. Malum prohibita (Victimless Crime laws) have no Constitutional basis and should be done away with.

09. Government should have to obey the same laws it expects citizens and corporations to obey. Especially regarding the environment and labor.

10. Social Security should be privatized and forced to obey the laws. A government ordered ponzi scheme is still a ponzi scheme.

11. Freedom of speech includes the internet, and political conventions. Citizens should not be forced to stand in outdoor prison cells euphemistically called “Free Speech Zones” to state their opinions far from media or officials.

12. Free immigration strengthens America. Illegal immigration should be punished, legal immigration should be free, fair, and easy. However immigrants should not expect free handouts. All they should get is what anyone should get, a fair chance to rise as far as their abilities let them.

13. The welfare state doesn’t work. End it. Establish a $1 for $1 tax deduction for charitable contributions.

14. Our educational system is broken. End the federal Department of Education and return this issue to the states.

15. The tax system is in dire need of reform. Limit deductions to a very few. Your yearly taxes should be easy enough that a small postcard size form is all that is needed to figure them out, be you a billionaire or impoverished.

16. Amending the Constitution is a very serious thing and should not be advocated lightly or for mere matters of policy. Banning gay marriage or flag burning via amendment is not only wrong, but the attempt cheapens the Constitution itself.

18. The government should not be allowed to infringe the rights of citizens by collecting databases of legal activities by citizens. National ID cards or chips, V-chips, clipper-chips and the like should be choices by free individuals, not enforced by law.

19. The Constitution means what it says. We should not be going to war without an explicit declaration of war by congress as provided by the Constitution. Reacting to attack is fine, planning and executing an invasion sans such a declaration is not.

20. Free and fair debate is essential to a democratic republic. Any candidate on the ballot in an area large enough to give them a mathematical chance to win an election should be allowed in any debates, appearances, or forums.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im a libertarian now.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's the party that best fits me too.

My dad has been one since the papa bush re-election (he let go into the poll with him and watch him vote)....I always thought his ideas were a little "strange" but instead, he was VASTLY more informed than me and it was me being the idiot.

God I wish I would of listened to my father more when I was young.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
One problem I had with the Libertarian Party was that they are going to seem too extreme for the average person to get behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest that's MY problem with them too. Most people who go libertarian are seduced by the "leave me alone" government but don't necessarily realize that their vision of government is basically police/military and nothing else. Most people agree that there are at least a few other things government is good for, just that controlling every aspect of the individual's life is not one of them.

EDIT: That said I really wish there was a legitimate threat to the parties in power right now. I definitely wouldn't mind if the libertarians displaced the republicans considering dems and libertarians agree on the most obvious stuff and could help keep each other's extremes in check.

Re: So you\'re thinking of becoming a Libertarian, eh?
 

[ QUOTE ]
"20 Things You Must Believe to be a Libertarian"

See if you're still interested after reading this... not a whole lot of people will believe all twenty. I'm pretty close to 20 of 20. #1 is somewhat specious - they would be too high if gov't were the way Libertarians would have it, but are not high considering all the things the gov't currently spends money doing...

(reprinted with author's permission)

01. Taxes are way too high.

02. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a vital individual right.

03. Freedom OF religion by necessity must include freedom FROM religion.

04. The chief cause of societal problems today is government solutions.

05. Government should limit itself to the powers specifically granted to it in the Constitution.

06. If you harm or endanger no others, what you do is not the business of the government. A man’s damnation is his own business.

07. The Drug War does more damage to society than the drugs, and violates the Constitution as well.

08. Malum prohibita (Victimless Crime laws) have no Constitutional basis and should be done away with.

09. Government should have to obey the same laws it expects citizens and corporations to obey. Especially regarding the environment and labor.

10. Social Security should be privatized and forced to obey the laws. A government ordered ponzi scheme is still a ponzi scheme.

11. Freedom of speech includes the internet, and political conventions. Citizens should not be forced to stand in outdoor prison cells euphemistically called “Free Speech Zones” to state their opinions far from media or officials.

12. Free immigration strengthens America. Illegal immigration should be punished, legal immigration should be free, fair, and easy. However immigrants should not expect free handouts. All they should get is what anyone should get, a fair chance to rise as far as their abilities let them.

13. The welfare state doesn’t work. End it. Establish a $1 for $1 tax deduction for charitable contributions.

14. Our educational system is broken. End the federal Department of Education and return this issue to the states.

15. The tax system is in dire need of reform. Limit deductions to a very few. Your yearly taxes should be easy enough that a small postcard size form is all that is needed to figure them out, be you a billionaire or impoverished.

16. Amending the Constitution is a very serious thing and should not be advocated lightly or for mere matters of policy. Banning gay marriage or flag burning via amendment is not only wrong, but the attempt cheapens the Constitution itself.

18. The government should not be allowed to infringe the rights of citizens by collecting databases of legal activities by citizens. National ID cards or chips, V-chips, clipper-chips and the like should be choices by free individuals, not enforced by law.

19. The Constitution means what it says. We should not be going to war without an explicit declaration of war by congress as provided by the Constitution. Reacting to attack is fine, planning and executing an invasion sans such a declaration is not.

20. Free and fair debate is essential to a democratic republic. Any candidate on the ballot in an area large enough to give them a mathematical chance to win an election should be allowed in any debates, appearances, or forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this list of 20 of their website and/or "official" in any way. A cursory glance gives me 19 out of 20, it looks like.

Les

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Live and let live. It's not extreme -- it's simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a bit of an oversimplification though. I don't pretend to know what all Libertarians but some--Penn Jillette for one--take it to the extreme of thinking we shouldn't have public schools or fund any medical research.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like those are bad things? Extreme, hardly.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm very much a person with libertarian ideals, but I only vote for them in specific circumstances. My vote is too powerful to use as an ideological weapon most of the time, and I want to do more than protest everytime I step foot in voting booth.

I typicaly vote for the candidate that I matches my views best or who I feel will do the best job with an actuall chance of being elected. This usually ends up being either a democrat or a republican, but on rare occasions it is a libertarian or an independent.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you were in the room when the decloration of independence was proposed you would have told them "naw, i'm sticking with the british rule as you guys dont have a good chance of pulling this off?"

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
So if you were in the room when the decloration of independence was proposed you would have told them "naw, i'm sticking with the british rule as you guys dont have a good chance of pulling this off?"

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he's saying that if the other guys in that room aren't committing to the war, he's not going to go charge the redcoats assisted only by his musket and 3 cats.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if you were in the room when the decloration of independence was proposed you would have told them "naw, i'm sticking with the british rule as you guys dont have a good chance of pulling this off?"

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he's saying that if the other guys in that room aren't committing to the war, he's not going to go charge the redcoats assisted only by his musket and 3 cats.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think that the people signing were well prepared and reasonably assessed that they had a good chance of winning a war?

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

I've known for a long time that the Libertarian Party echoed most of my political beliefs, but like so many of us, I chose to be an uninvolved participant in the political process for the simple reason that I never felt it mattered.

The democrat and republican parties stopped representing the people's interests a long time ago, and now it is all about staying in power. The passing of this interenet gambling bill was the last staw for me, and I plan on becoming much more active in the political process both personally and finanically,and I plan on doing it through the Libertarian Party.

I really see no other choice. How I live my life is my business, and I'll be damned if I'm going to just lay there and let a self-righteous prick like Frist trample over my personal freedoms without a fight.

I encourage all of you to do the same.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
My brother told me that the Libertarian party believes the next best thing to them being in power is to have split power in the government. In other words, we need the Republicans to control the House, and the Democrats control the Senate (or vise versa). I cannot confirm that the Libertarian party actually said this, but it makes sence. With split control, we'll have more gridlock. With more gridlock, hopefully stupid bills like this would have never been passed.



[/ QUOTE ]

So you want to fund a government that accomplishes nothing?

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

Guys. this thread is slipping close to politics. Let's get back on track and talk about what the Libertarians would do regarding online gambling.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't like their stand on defense or i would join.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you sumarize their defense platform? I took a quick scan of hte website and didn't see defense mentioned (which I find quite odd for a political party...)

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, if any of you really do find yourself thinking along libertarian lines, you should check out the Cato Institute.

www.cato.org

[/ QUOTE ]

Or the far better...

www.mises.org

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The Republicans say whatever the public seems to be buying in order to get elected.


[/ QUOTE ]
IMO, this pretty much describes both Dems and Republicans.


[ QUOTE ]

Right now, I'm offended by their willingness to subvert the democratic process.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm offended as well, but I knew this was done by both parties quite liberally over the years. Until now it just didn't really click how horrible this is.

I also know that the Libertarians have some more extreme views that I can't get on board with, such as the Drug legalization and other things.


I'm just pretty digusted with the whole deal right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to clarify something that you may or may not be aware of:

I am a libertarian and I am for degriminalization of drugs. This does not mean that i think drugs are good or helpful or should be consumed. What it means is that i do not want to criminalize drug posession/use and have ungodly amounts of taxpayer money spend on a war that has accomplished nothing. Cocaine is cheaper today than it was in the 80's. heroin is cheap and widely available too. How has the status quo drug war helped us?

You can be against drug use and libertarian.

Re: So you\'re thinking of becoming a Libertarian, eh?
 

[ QUOTE ]
"20 Things You Must Believe to be a Libertarian"



[/ QUOTE ]

On whose authority do you speak? I do not have to accept this premise and do not trust anyone who starts a post like this. I will decide what I am, not you.

Re: Libertarian Party Press Release
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't like their stand on defense or i would join.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not agree with a couple of their policies but agree with most of them. I think this country would be well served if their ideas became more widely known and the way to do that is to increase their numbers/voice.