Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

I have seen a few posts lately of people saying they have no read on villian because either hero has jus sat down or villian has just sat down. When they really do imo. here are three things i see and make note of untill i gt a solid read because anything helps when we dont have ANY eads.

- When villian posts blind before the blinds reach him
This is a sign of donkeyness imo. and when i dont have any other info i take this as a hint that villian is worse than the average villian at nl25 or 50. I will then change my perception from an unknown to a little below avg for the table which will help me play early hands against that villian.

- Villians who buy in for a weird number
When villian buys in for 14.53 at a table i assume this is the last of his br and thus i give him the ole "donk" assumption. why else would he go to the trouble to buy in for such a weird vale unless that is all he has left. again i assume he is less then the avg player and change the way i play accordingly.

- When i first sit down and see villian has 15 bucks or so in font of them
A decent player will reload as often as needed and when i see a villian who is sitting with less then the max by 5 or 10 bucks i make the assumption that he doesnt kno that much about poker and probably isnt a very great player untill i play for a while and see something to change my assumption


Obv these arent iron clad things but are better then nothing in this game of reads when we dont have any yet.
These are the three main ones i see on a semi regular basis. do u think these have much merit in the lower stakes or are just rubish? and also do u have any others u look for while u are at the table?

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

I agree with all the points. The last point i would make BB dependent rahter than money dependent because this has to do with how high stakes this is about.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

I defintely agree with the second two. The first one I'm not so sure. Especially if your first hand is in cutoff on a full ring table, I can see posting the BB. It's easier to protect your blind from late position and if you're good enough posting the BB from CO can be +EV. I wouldn't judge much on the first one, but the second two I can defintely see more.

Second one strikes me as really telling. When someone buys in for anything in between 5-20, a light pops up in my head. I see it as very unusual.

Also try to interpret the information you do have from the few hands you've seen (if any) I wouldn't give it much wieght, but if you see something notable, I would take it into consideration.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

[ QUOTE ]
I defintely agree with the second two. The first one I'm not so sure. Especially if your first hand is in cutoff on a full ring table, I can see posting the BB. It's easier to protect your blind from late position and if you're good enough posting the BB from CO can be +EV. I wouldn't judge much on the first one, but the second two I can defintely see more.

Second one strikes me as really telling. When someone buys in for anything in between 5-20, a light pops up in my head. I see it as very unusual.

Also try to interpret the information you do have from the few hands you've seen (if any) I wouldn't give it much wieght, but if you see something notable, I would take it into consideration.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea the first one is towards like people posting utg or utg+1 the most. i always get a little chuckle when i see some dude post utg and then he gets a donk read untill he can prove otherwise [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

Agree with these, and the what position do they post the blind in points - posting in position is a lot different from not having the patience to wait a couple of hands. If I see a player post in position, I may give him some extra credit unless point 2 applies.

Also, in general, posting an extra blind is probably a more important tell in FL than NL, where the blinds actually matter.

It's also worth noting when they go for the minimum instead of maximum buy-in - they're either consciously playing a shortstack strategy, or they don't understand strategy and are afraid of losing too much. Which of these applies usually becomes apparent in a few hands.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

Good observations

1. Yes this can mean something. But postion shuold be taken into considertion also. I have posted BB if I am CO or Button - especially on loose passive tables where the BB will get you to the flop. Can also be used as a reverse tell. A player may want you to think they are donkey.

2. Yes I think you are correct

3. Buying in for the minimum does not mean they are a weak player. They may be using some kind of "short stack" strategy. I avoid tables with a bunch of players buyin in for the min as it is hard to make money off them. They only play a few hands and usually go all-in.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

Interesting. I do all of these deliberately from time to time, and I'm probably not the only one.

I'd like to add some of my own:

-Check whether the players at your table are multitabling I don't need to tell you that multitablers are generally tighter.

-If your site tells you where players are from, make a note of it.
What time is it where they are playing? Is it during the day? Night? I make a lot of guesses about players based on this information. Nighttime in Alabama? Jackpot.

-If you have seen them raise preflop even once?- how big was the bet?
Did it look like they took limpers into account? That's a danger sign. Was it undersized? That's a good sign.

-If your site tells you how long players have been registered, make a note.
Better players last longer.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

[ QUOTE ]

- When villian posts blind before the blinds reach him
This is a sign of donkeyness imo. and when i dont have any other info i take this as a hint that villian is worse than the average villian at nl25 or 50. I will then change my perception from an unknown to a little below avg for the table which will help me play early hands against that villian.


[/ QUOTE ]

I always do this just because it costs me next to nothing and might, just might make people think i'm a donkey...

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

[ QUOTE ]

I always do this just because it costs me next to nothing and might, just might make people think i'm a donkey...

[/ QUOTE ]

Same lol...I play 6max, and although I won't do it dead UTG, I'll usually do it from the CO or MP. Part of it is multi-tabling laziness (wanna click auto-post to get it over with) and part is just hoping that someone decides I'm a fish.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I always do this just because it costs me next to nothing and might, just might make people think i'm a donkey...

[/ QUOTE ]

Same lol...I play 6max, and although I won't do it dead UTG, I'll usually do it from the CO or MP. Part of it is multi-tabling laziness (wanna click auto-post to get it over with) and part is just hoping that someone decides I'm a fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also almost always raise that first hand.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villians who buy in for a weird number
When villian buys in for 14.53 at a table i assume this is the last of his br and thus i give him the ole "donk" assumption. why else would he go to the trouble to buy in for such a weird vale unless that is all he has left. again i assume he is less then the avg player and change the way i play accordingly.


[/ QUOTE ]

This one is iron-clad.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villians who buy in for a weird number
When villian buys in for 14.53 at a table i assume this is the last of his br and thus i give him the ole "donk" assumption. why else would he go to the trouble to buy in for such a weird vale unless that is all he has left. again i assume he is less then the avg player and change the way i play accordingly.


[/ QUOTE ]

This one is iron-clad.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I do this for fun sometimes.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villians who buy in for a weird number
When villian buys in for 14.53 at a table i assume this is the last of his br and thus i give him the ole "donk" assumption. why else would he go to the trouble to buy in for such a weird vale unless that is all he has left. again i assume he is less then the avg player and change the way i play accordingly.


[/ QUOTE ]

This one is iron-clad.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I do this for fun sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have a wierd sense of what is fun..

I think Antinome just made a kick-ass post with VERY vaild points, especially the one about villian making PFR that takes into account action before them. I use this one all the time

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

This is a great thread and should be listed in the MicroNL FAQ

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

This might actually be a read but I've found that when I raise preflop in position and villain insta-checks into me on the flop a c-bet will work every time. I haven't been called or raised for as long is I remembre.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

Actually I think it's quite a big leak drawing any conclusions about your opponents based on these things as they are easily forged for just that purpose.

I routinely do both number 1 and 3 and will start doing number 2 if it will help me fool people.
Also I sometimes post early by pure misstake (being busy on other tables etc..) and it obviously doesn't make any difference to my play. As other people have pointed out raising when posting in between works very well (for some reason)

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

I've actually seen some regulars at NL50 always buy-in for something like 47.25, or so, perhaps trying to make it look like they have their whole bankroll in play - this hasn't been the case. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

But yea, it's often true. Many of these points are quite valid.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I always do this just because it costs me next to nothing and might, just might make people think i'm a donkey...

[/ QUOTE ]

Same lol...I play 6max, and although I won't do it dead UTG, I'll usually do it from the CO or MP. Part of it is multi-tabling laziness (wanna click auto-post to get it over with) and part is just hoping that someone decides I'm a fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

MultiTableHelper can click the 'Wait for the BB' and then check Auto-post automatically for you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

I will definitely be buying in for $0.93 less than the max and posting my big blind UTG tonight!

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

Players with like over 4 buyins on the table and who are playing every hand and not multitabling are donkeys who went on a rush.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

[ QUOTE ]
This might actually be a read but I've found that when I raise preflop in position and villain insta-checks into me on the flop a c-bet will work every time. I haven't been called or raised for as long is I remembre.

[/ QUOTE ]
another one that relates to this is some one who post check/fold in there bb. i make a lil note on them and raise more when it folds to me in the SB since they will often just click that.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

So this is a really old thread and it gives some good tips for when we havent picked up reads on villians. But i kinda wanted to bump it up with an idea of mine. A while back I kinda came up with a "theory". Kaz brought it back up today and we figured it would go best here. Its nothin huge and probably will make a lot of ppl lol cause it is pretty rediculous.

People that have children as their poker icon are huge FISH. If i had to guess id say this is true atleast like 9/10 times. Like i said it may sound stupid but its soo true.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

[ QUOTE ]
So this is a really old thread and it gives some good tips for when we havent picked up reads on villians. But i kinda wanted to bump it up with an idea of mine. A while back I kinda came up with a "theory". Kaz brought it back up today and we figured it would go best here. Its nothin huge and probably will make a lot of ppl lol cause it is pretty rediculous.

People that have children as their poker icon are huge FISH. If i had to guess id say this is true atleast like 9/10 times. Like i said it may sound stupid but its soo true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I intentionally have my cute dog as my avatar in hopes that people will think I'm a fish.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

people with baby avatars <<< people with dog avatars

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

Ironically I try to avoid people with names like LOLPOKER or IHASABUCKETLEWL. They're usually people who post on this site.

Re: Things i look for when i dont have a read
 

everyone that uses the surfer guy or policeman avatar sucks.