Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

This is a companion, non-sticky, thread to the microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 topic. Please post any comments and suggestions for improvement here so I don't have to organize PM's or perhaps to allow someone else to update the guide to version 1.1. Enjoy.

(The sticky will be stuck shortly i believe. I need to post this first so I can link to it.)

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

The sticky has been up for 30 minutes and i already thought of something to add [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

FAQ section:
When joining a table, is it better to post in the CO or BB?
It really doesn't matter. By posting in the CO, you pay 1 SB to see 7 hands (.143 SB/hand). By posting in the BB, you pay 1.5 SB's to see 10 hands (.150 SB/hand). If you are a winning player, not posting in the CO costs you 7 hands of potential +EV play. A few posters will post in MP3 as well if they just missed the CO. Most will recommend that you wait for the BB instead of posting in MP2 or earlier. Of course, if you are a losing player, its -EV to even sit down.

Term:
EV - expected value

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

Just read the FAQ, and I think it is excellent. I am new to the Micro forum, and found it very helpful. The threads linked to are great. Unfortunately I made a post slightly before the FAQ went up, that was already answered to some extent in there. If everyone who posts in this forum reads it first, the FAQ will be a great asset to the forum.

Somewhat O/T - bisonbison's hand converter doesn't work for cryptos? Is there something else that does, or will I have to make a conversion attempt manually?

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

floated terms:
FPS
ABC Poker

Also, I think sthief09's primer on pocket pairs and suited connectors has a lot of value.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

Well done Spider. Where was this 2 months ago when I started. This should save alot of people wasted time and money. Should clean up the forum a bit huh.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

The sticky is a nice contribution to the Micro-limit forum. I'm looking forward to days of more strategy. Nice work.

[ QUOTE ]

When joining a table, is it better to post in the CO or BB?
It really doesn't matter. By posting in the CO, you pay 1 SB to see 7 hands (.143 SB/hand). By posting in the BB, you pay 1.5 SB's to see 10 hands (.150 SB/hand). If you are a winning player, not posting in the CO costs you 7 hands of potential +EV play. A few posters will post in MP3 as well if they just missed the CO. Most will recommend that you wait for the BB instead of posting in MP2 or earlier. Of course, if you are a losing player, its -EV to even sit down.

[/ QUOTE ]

You answered this nicely without confounding the topic. If you like $$, post in the cutoff... Posting stuff about how it affects your win rate is largely pointless unless you are academically playing for win rate, and even then it's not clear. Nicely done.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

I think you should include a section explaining what pokertracker is and where people can learn more about it. There are a lot of people who won't know how to find their own vpip, pfr, etc..

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

How about a section on what the book acronyms mean

SSH, Small Stakes Hold'em
ToP Theory of Poker
...

Also you might want to include when a poster sees their post quoted with nothing added the poster is saying "ditto & props". At least that is what I have been led to believe [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Vern

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also you might want to include when a poster sees their post quoted with nothing added the poster is saying "ditto & props". At least that is what I have been led to believe [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

Great work on the FAQ. As a n00b here, I've read and reread this plenty to get things straight. My comment is less on your FAQ and more on the link to Homer's Building a Bankroll for newbies thread. A recent poster followed the advice in that thread to take your first $100 to Interpoker's 1/2 tables and whore the bonus there to build up your first bankroll. I followed the same advice, and fortunately had a fantastically good run over the hands needed to clear the bonus. He, however, ran into difficulty with the tightness of the tables and lost his investment. He posted his disgust on the board, and the general concensus of the response was that taking $100 to Interpoker and the other Crypto's was terrible advice, and that Paradise's Granny bonus was a much better place to take $100. Homer's advice about maximizing bonuses is probably sound, but it's likely too risky to be a good place for new players to start, especially since the lowest limit is 1/2. Would it be possible to update the FAQ with an alternative path for getting started, including the Granny bonus, and perhaps alternatives of instantbankroll.com or the nanolimit games for people not wanting to even invest an initial $100?

Thanks.

Very good FAQ
 

As an occasional poster on this forum, I found your FAQ very effective in outlining basic protocol questions.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

good post, the homer bankroll building topic may be a tad dated, but enough people said it was great, so i included it. i never actually read it in detail.

a sticky topic itself can't recommend or really mention sites, bonuscodes, third party companies, etc.. since it implies that twoplustwo.com endorses that recommendation.

there is enough material for someone to write a favorite worthy topic about different micro limit "ladders" to SS (small stakes).. covering nano limits, bonus whoring, multitabling, etc. the internet forum is more devoted to bonus whoring than micro, but some of it spills over here.

--

so someone would have to step up and write a micro graduation guide of some sort.

--

thx AKQ

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

There's been a big influx of new posters in micros recently. We should get thier feedback about the FAQ.

So, new posters. What do you think of the FAQ? What does it explain well, what needs improvement? What doesn't it talk about at all that it should?

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

As a n00b the guidelines taught me a lot. I really got the feel of analyzing the stats with my PokerTracker. Homer's building the bankroll post really opened my eyes too how easy it is to build a $1000 bankroll. The active collection of favorite posts is probably my favorite part. Within that particular thread is a lot of knowledge on poker, plus a lot of great laughs!

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

FAQ is great! Since you asked for criticism I will give some, but don't get confused; I think it is pretty good the way it is.

Add some more abbreviations:

For example WIHW, PT, PS, UB ect.... sorry more don't come to mind at the moment.

Maybe a link to a post that has a collection of hands and how best to play them. Wouldn't it be great to say "look at this post, it will tell you how to play AKs".

That is about it at the moment. I still have not read all the "Favorite Posts" so some of what I say might improve the post might already be posted.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

Feedback re: FAQ - Thank you so much for defining what a LAG is - I see it everywhere, but couldn't figure out what it meant! All in all, great FAQ, thank you very much for posting it sticky.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

I see your point about not being able to endorse other sites in a sticky topic.

Knowing that, I'm of two minds about how to proceed. On the one hand, I'm not particularly experienced in the world of online poker, bonus whoring, and bankroll building, and I have not yet graduated to small stakes myself. However, I think writing update about getting started would be extremely valuable, and doing it myself would accomplish that. I'll volunteer to compile what I've learned myself and what others have posted about graduating between levels and building up a bankroll, particularly since there have been many good posts recently on the topic. That said, if there's a more experienced player who's motivated to write it, I'll certainly defer to someone with more first hand information.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

I cme across your FAQ post only because someone in another forum referred to it.

Great stuff. I think the post should be up on all forums including the midlimits forum.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

1.) I LOVE TWO PLUS TWO. I OWE ALL OF YOU GUYS A LOT FOR THE VAST IMPROVEMENT I'VE SEEN IN MY GAME IN THE PAST THREE MONTHS SINCE I STARTED LURKING/POSTING HERE.

2.) The FAQ is already quite good. I think Homer's BW guide for newbies needs some updating, but I saw that someone is already working on that this week. (Sorry, can't remember who.)

3.) I may have just never found a thread discussing it, but I had a big misconception about pot odds vs. pot equity until Grunch set me straight on it last week. (BTW my win rate shot up immediately after I read that post - small sample size, blah blah..)

4.) Maybe this belongs in the beginner forum not Micro, but it took me a long time to understand why it's bad to berate the fish and tell people off after they suck out on a bad draw. Having a post in the FAQ that clearly explains the 2+2 philosophies of a) not talking about 2+2 at the table and b) not being a know-it-all table captain who scares away the fish would have been very helpful for me when I got here.

Keep up the good work guys, and my heartfelt thanks for your generosity. I hope to contribute as much when I become a more seasoned player.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
I had a big misconception about pot odds vs. pot equity until Grunch set me straight on it last week. (BTW my win rate shot up immediately after I read that post - small sample size, blah blah..)


[/ QUOTE ]

Very glad to hear that your results have improved.

I don't think I have ever seen a post that simply explains pot odds vs. pot equity. I think there should be one. I probably explain pot odds vs. pot equity at least once or twice a week. It's a very difficult concept to figure out the first time, mostly becasue I think people do a poor job explaining it. But it is critical that everyone understand it thoroughly. You simply can't win at poker for more than 10 hands without understanding pot odds & pot equity.

</soapbox>

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

A starting point on explaining odds/equity/etc

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
A starting point on explaining odds/equity/etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the props.

There's a few things I'd like to edit in that post.

The moderator isn't accepting PMs.

Is there anything I can do to edit this post?

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe a link to a post that has a collection of hands and how best to play them. Wouldn't it be great to say "look at this post, it will tell you how to play AKs".


[/ QUOTE ]

I've lamented over this same idea.

However, I'm not sure if it's possible, because you're going to deal with many different types of boards and opponents and positions with each of the hands.

--Dave.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

can you point me to that post you made grunchcan.
thanks

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
3.) I may have just never found a thread discussing it, but I had a big misconception about pot odds vs. pot equity until Grunch set me straight on it last week. (BTW my win rate shot up immediately after I read that post - small sample size, blah blah..)


[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone point me to this thread. I tried searching, but ended up with a gazillion posts on pot equity. Thanks.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone point me to this thread. I tried searching, but ended up with a gazillion posts on pot equity. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the thread UncleSalty was referring to.

By the way, here's another forum searching tip (and how I found the thread).

If you know someone participate in a thread you are interested in, you can click the "show all user's posts" link in thier profile, and then swim through the hits. In this case, I looked at UncleSalty's profile (which I found by clicking on his name in this thread), and then searched all his posts.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

Thanks Grunch. I hand't thought of doing the search that way.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's a few things I'd like to edit in that post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just reply to it and add in your extra comments.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

Maybe you could add what this means as I see it a lot. I figure it means how do you play it, but I'm still not sure.

"What line do I take?"
Or
"I like that line."

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
"What line do I take?"
Or
"I like that line."

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, its asking how a hand should be played.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"What line do I take?"
Or
"I like that line."

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, its asking how a hand should be played.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know why it's asked like that? Inside joke or something?

Also I'm going to need you to go ahead, and come in on Saturday. And if you could go ahead, and come in on Sunday that be great. M'kay

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"What line do I take?"
Or
"I like that line."

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, its asking how a hand should be played.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know why it's asked like that? Inside joke or something?

Also I'm going to need you to go ahead, and come on Saturday. And if you could go ahead, and come in on Sunday that be great. M'kay

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's taken from Sailing or maybe Racing. (Taking the optimal line will get you the best results.)

Edit: It could also refer to "line of thinking", but I think the above is more correct.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

We need a serious post encouraging people to stop posting so many damned threads. This place is overrun now, and it's hard to sift through all the [censored] here. I can't even find time to post in most of the threads anymore.

Rob

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

If you post it, I'll keep bumping it [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
We need a serious post encouraging people to stop posting so many damned threads. This place is overrun now, and it's hard to sift through all the [censored] here. I can't even find time to post in most of the threads anymore.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm really close to my limit as well. i tried the past two days to make the rounds b/c i took a break..

it really is getting bad, but its all relatively new posters.. its not like i see any interesting hands from shad, gregj, or any of the guys from the generation after ours.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We need a serious post encouraging people to stop posting so many damned threads. This place is overrun now, and it's hard to sift through all the [censored] here. I can't even find time to post in most of the threads anymore.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm really close to my limit as well. i tried the past two days to make the rounds b/c i took a break..

it really is getting bad, but its all relatively new posters.. its not like i see any interesting hands from shad, gregj, or any of the guys from the generation after ours.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that everything thinks their hands are interesting, when most of them aren't. KK when an A flops isn't going to be interesting very often, but it's still often tough to play correctly.

I dunno, I think I'm going to write up a Clarkmeister-ish post (or maybe just copy/paste his [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) and put it here. Soon.

Rob

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
We need a serious post encouraging people to stop posting so many damned threads. This place is overrun now, and it's hard to sift through all the [censored] here. I can't even find time to post in most of the threads anymore.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

While you don't have to post in every thread, it'd be nice if you did get to see most of them (their subject lines in the list).

You can accomplish this by setting it up so that you get to see say 30 or 50 posts on the front page of each forum. I haven't done this, but I hear it's in the FAQ at the very top of the page.

Just keep in mind that poker's becoming much more popular than it was before... someone mentioned 500 multitabling TAAs at 2/4 and 3/6, so we're going to get a higher volume than the older posters are used to in the future.

--Dave.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that everything thinks their hands are interesting, when most of them aren't. KK when an A flops isn't going to be interesting very often, but it's still often tough to play correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been "verbose" a few times in the past, and I've mostly chilled out when people told to STFU.

However, the forum really isn't about posting "interesting hands" (interesting hands for the most part occur rarely). It's about learning to play, right?

I mean, we could have an interesting hands forum... but I'm not sure what kind of traffic it would get.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, I think I'm going to write up a Clarkmeister-ish post (or maybe just copy/paste his [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) and put it here. Soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wasn't there one a short while ago, within the last week? Why can't I find it? (Oh... duh [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ). I'm strongly in favor of reducing the flow of new threads.

Re: Microlimit guidelines and FAQ v1.0 - comments/suggestions thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that everything thinks their hands are interesting, when most of them aren't. KK when an A flops isn't going to be interesting very often, but it's still often tough to play correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been "verbose" a few times in the past, and I've mostly chilled out when people told to STFU.

However, the forum really isn't about posting "interesting hands" (interesting hands for the most part occur rarely). It's about learning to play, right?

I mean, we could have an interesting hands forum... but I'm not sure what kind of traffic it would get.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave,

People learn more from reading interesting hands. If there were some qualifier on what you should/shouldn't post, people would be encouraged to read more, and realize that we all deal with the same situations time and time again, and would hopefully stop posting some of those situations so often.

The KK monotone flop thread on the main page is an example of that. If that poster would just read for a while, rather than posting, I think it'd be rather easy to figure out what the right course of action is.

People need to stop looking for a quick fix and realize that learning to play poker requires work. If they want good advice and opinions, they're going to have to start working on posting hands that require more thought.

If people were to read more and post less, the forum would be a better place.

Rob