9-11 Demolition Documentary..
 

Apparently, this was just released on the 11th of this year. I'd like to get some other opinions of this, I think it's very well done. It's an hour and a half long, three 30 minute parts. I encourage everyone on both sides of the fence to take a look at this. This is NOT Loose Change.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Re: 9-11 Demolition Documentary..
 

cliffs notes?

Re: 9-11 Demolition Documentary..
 

I was hoping people would watch it first, but there's a lot of video evidence explaining controlled demolitions and comparing them to 9-11. Lots of witnesses hearing explosions, video evidence of said explosions.

Explained how the towers were built and that they were built with this type of attack in mind. In 75, there was a three hour fire that did NOTHING to the structure of the building. There's really a ton of info, I can hardly remember it all, I'm going to half to run through it again another time.

Alot of debunking of the official videos that were put out. It's really quite convincing. Shrug.

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Just watched the first one. It's another attempt to debunk the official story from a physical perspective, but it does say some interesting things that I haven't heard before (namely logical estimations of the time for a resisted pancake-style collapse to occur).

This is a much better job than Loose Change since it doesn't concern itself with conspiracy reconstructions.

I'd be very interested to hear what anyone with a knowledge of architecture or engineering has to say about this.

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First interesting point: The fireman quoted in the first video, approximately 5:30 mentions the "two isolated pockets of fire" on the 78th floor. Now, the exact tower is never mentioned, but the planes crashed between floors 94 and 98 in the North Tower and between floors 78 and 84 in the South. I assume this firefighter was in the South Tower.

The communication that was quoted says nothing about anything else except for "two pockets of fire on the 78th floor." The video is taking that to mean there is nothing else. There are just two tiny fires easily managed. I imagine the reality is much different, but I wasn't there.

Further, who's to say that the firefighter wasn't wrong? Maybe this was his first communication and he corrected himself later. Maybe he just missed others. Who's to say that there weren't more fires between the 79th floor and the 84th, you know, where the plane hit? Who knows?

I expect to see a lot more of this ambiguous kind of stuff for the remaining hour or so.

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More ambiguous [censored]. "Compare a 20 hour inferno to 90 minutes of smoke." Lady, I could hold a torch to the base of a building for 20 years and it wouldn't do a damn thing. If she's not going to mention the temperatures of the fires, why bother comparing them?

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"Here, look at this video that shows the thick steel remnant from the core after the building collapsed.. Look how thick and sturdy it is!"

Highlights on a video showing rescue workers standing underneath pieces of the core.

Two minutes later.

"Why does PBS fail to explain the complete disapperance of the Twin Towers' cores?"

Cut to a different video showing none of the same remnants as before.

Edit: Not to mention, if you look at the video that was posted in OOT last week, you can sort of make out the "core" of the building lagging behind the rest as it's collapsing.

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13:17 into it now. I don't understand this. So the lady says at 10:30, she heard explosions (not to mention the first tower collapsed 30 minutes prior and the second collapsed two minutes prior, I'll assume she meant roughly 10:30). She heard two explosions, and if there was a third, the tower wouldn't stand up.

First, why did she have to be told by someone to leave the building AFTER THE NEARLY IDENTICAL TOWER ADJACENT HAD COLLAPSED? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have stuck around. Then, why doesn't her story match up with the firefighters just before? They said there were tons of little explosions. She said two big ones. Oh, that's because eyewitness accounts are consistently bogus. The creators of the video just wanted to put clips of people talking about the buildings and explosions, nevermind their expertise (or lack thereof).

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How many of the people saying there were "explosions" have actually heard an explosion of that magnitude before? And how many of them have heard a building of that size collapse before?

And if they haven't heard one or both, how accurately can they be making that comparison?

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Blah blah, sound travels slow, blah blah, but do they fail to mention that the smoke is covering the top half of the building? Of course they do. So the sound of the "explosion" gets to the camera by the time the top half of the building has probably collapsed. Gee, what insight.

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Here we go again! "Red-orange flames are what we saw on September 11th." Right, on the outside of the building. I'm not going to draw any conclusions on the temperature of the fire inside the building by looking at the color of the fire on the outside.

And the steel doesn't have to completely melt either, just be weakened enough to no longer hold the weight of the building.

More misleading information, meaningless points brought up to be deliberately confusing, and ambiguous "facts." Yawn.

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"And we were led to believe that these blah blah buildings collapsed from small scattered fires and 90 minutes blah blah." Stop it, seriously. This is retarded. She quoted ONE FIREFIGHTER on the BOTTOM FLOOR OF THE FIRES saying there were SCATTERED FIRES and now the entire building collapsed just from scattered fires? Ugh.

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"Would fire have the strength to eject such huge chunks of metal?" Yeah. Explosive fire.

No, anyone who claims that "fire ejected huge chunks of metal" is retarded. Here's an experiment. Take a glass box of some sort. Put a platform on top of it and jump up and down on it until the glass breaks. Is the glass going to fall straight down underneath itself? I imagine not. Presumably, when an upper floor collapses onto the lower floor, a similar thing should/could happen.

See? More ambiguous stuff. She didn't say anything wrong. "Could a fire have done this?" The answer is no. She wants you to think the answer is no. But the important question is not what she's asking.

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Don't hold back, New. Tell us how you really feel.

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No, I think I'm done. 20 minutes of this is just too much [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I try every time one of these is posted to sit through it all and point out what's wrong, but I can never make it.

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I'm not going to bother with the videos, seems like a rehash of the same thing again, but I did encounter a bit of new information after going through some of the 5th anniversery programs. According to "Inside The Twin Towers", the chief engineer of the buildings managed to get up to the main damage of WTC1 about 30 minutes after the attack and saw that there was a major structural problem with the main elevator shaft - the core of the building. So the guy who knew the building the best knew there was a good chance they were going to at least paritially collapse in short order.

Add in the fact that even from the outside, you can see every one of the buildings that did collapse - WTC 1, 2 & 7, slowly sag over time. It's not as if the building were rigid and intact and then suddenly collapsed, that would be suspicious. No, if you look at the photographic evidence, all three show signs of distortion that gets progressively worse until structural failure occurs. This distortion occurs way before any "explosions", so unless someone wants to explain how "quiet explosives" were used, then they went with the conventional noisy ones, anyone sticking with the demolition theory is ignoring the evidence.

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[ QUOTE ]
No, I think I'm done. 20 minutes of this is just too much [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I try every time one of these is posted to sit through it all and point out what's wrong, but I can never make it.

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Did you even get to the 2nd video with the sounds?

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to bother with the videos, seems like a rehash of the same thing again, but I did encounter a bit of new information after going through some of the 5th anniversery programs. According to "Inside The Twin Towers", the chief engineer of the buildings managed to get up to the main damage of WTC1 about 30 minutes after the attack and saw that there was a major structural problem with the main elevator shaft - the core of the building. So the guy who knew the building the best knew there was a good chance they were going to at least paritially collapse in short order.

Add in the fact that even from the outside, you can see every one of the buildings that did collapse - WTC 1, 2 & 7, slowly sag over time. It's not as if the building were rigid and intact and then suddenly collapsed, that would be suspicious. No, if you look at the photographic evidence, all three show signs of distortion that gets progressively worse until structural failure occurs. This distortion occurs way before any "explosions", so unless someone wants to explain how "quiet explosives" were used, then they went with the conventional noisy ones, anyone sticking with the demolition theory is ignoring the evidence.

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Well, I need to watch it again, but there are alot of witnesses that said there were explosions occuring not long after the plane hit. The way they explained it, there are several types of explosions necessary to set up the demolition so it falls onto itself.

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Lots of explosions not long after a plane carrying 9000 gallons of jet fuel crashes into a building? What are the odds? I'm shocked no one has picked up on this before.

Re: 9-11 Demolition Documentary..
 

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Lots of explosions not long after a plane carrying 9000 gallons of jet fuel crashes into a building? What are the odds? I'm shocked no one has picked up on this before.

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In the lobby? Why were the lobby windows blown out? In the basement? Why?

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CrazyPsycho,

I encourage you to read this paper on the controlled demolition theory. It was written by experts in the controlled demolition field.

A Critical Analysis of the Collapse of WTC Towers 1, 2, & 7 from an Explosives and Conventional Demolition Industry Viewpoint

Re: 9-11 Demolition Documentary..
 

[ QUOTE ]
CrazyPsycho,

I encourage you to read this paper on the controlled demolition theory. It was written by experts in the controlled demolition field.

A Critical Analysis of the Collapse of WTC Towers 1, 2, & 7 from an Explosives and Conventional Demolition Industry Viewpoint

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll do the same if you watch the video. And not cop-out after 20 minutes.

Re: 9-11 Demolition Documentary..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CrazyPsycho,

I encourage you to read this paper on the controlled demolition theory. It was written by experts in the controlled demolition field.

A Critical Analysis of the Collapse of WTC Towers 1, 2, & 7 from an Explosives and Conventional Demolition Industry Viewpoint

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll do the same if you watch the video. And not cop-out after 20 minutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not playing tit for tat for here. Ive watched loose change and read enough conspiracy theory stuff that I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on them. It would take a much greater investment of my time to watch those videos than it would for you to read the relavtively short document I posted. I've given you a resource and thats all I can do.

Re: 9-11 Demolition Documentary..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CrazyPsycho,

I encourage you to read this paper on the controlled demolition theory. It was written by experts in the controlled demolition field.

A Critical Analysis of the Collapse of WTC Towers 1, 2, & 7 from an Explosives and Conventional Demolition Industry Viewpoint

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll do the same if you watch the video. And not cop-out after 20 minutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not playing tit for tat for here. Ive watched loose change and read enough conspiracy theory stuff that I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on them. It would take a much greater investment of my time to watch those videos than it would for you to read the relavtively short document I posted. I've given you a resource and thats all I can do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whatever. I've read the beginning, and they assume there's no way they could have installed charges throughout the building. Well, according to the video, a couple of people working in the WTC, the weekend before the attack, they had a "power down", which never happens, followed by guys with huge toolboxes apparently installing "internet cables".

Now, these guys could be full of [censored] and lying to get their name out there, and I don't 100% believe anything at this point.

Not too sold on the paper, the video pretty much disagrees with every point made here, I guess seeing the evidence sways me more towards that end. Thanks for the link, I really enjoy reading all the different opinions on what happened. Maybe, someday we will get the whole story of the day.

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[ QUOTE ]
Whatever. I've read the beginning, and they assume there's no way they could have installed charges throughout the building. Well, according to the video, a couple of people working in the WTC, the weekend before the attack, they had a "power down", which never happens, followed by guys with huge toolboxes apparently installing "internet cables".


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I dont think you understand the magnitude of work it would require to lay enough charges and wiring to pull of controlled demolition of a building the size of the WTC. It would take more than some guys with "huge toolboxes".

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Now, these guys could be full of [censored] and lying to get their name out there, and I don't 100% believe anything at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those guys dont need to "get their name out there". They are at the top of an industry that is relatively small and highly specialized. Lying would only hurt them, because if they were putting out something false it would be obvious to others in the industry. I have my doubts about your assertion that you dont "100% believe anything", but I'll take your word for it.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whatever. I've read the beginning, and they assume there's no way they could have installed charges throughout the building. Well, according to the video, a couple of people working in the WTC, the weekend before the attack, they had a "power down", which never happens, followed by guys with huge toolboxes apparently installing "internet cables".


[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think you understand the magnitude of work it would require to lay enough charges and wiring to pull of controlled demolition of a building the size of the WTC. It would take more than some guys with "huge toolboxes".

[ QUOTE ]
Now, these guys could be full of [censored] and lying to get their name out there, and I don't 100% believe anything at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those guys dont need to "get their name out there". They are at the top of an industry that is relatively small and highly specialized. Lying would only hurt them, because if they were putting out something false it would be obvious to others in the industry. I have my doubts about your assertion that you dont "100% believe anything", but I'll take your word for it.

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I meant the guys talking about a powerdown possibly making stuff up, not the writers of the paper, sorry for the confusion. I think it was the same guy that said he heard construction for a few weeks, got nosey, went to look, and there was nothing there. Strange.

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Lots of explosions not long after a plane carrying 9000 gallons of jet fuel crashes into a building? What are the odds? I'm shocked no one has picked up on this before.

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Because large explosions can shatter windows a long distance away. Also, if the fuel ran down the express elevator shafts and exploded, which is what happened, the most likely place for that explosion to vent itself would be in the lobby where the elevator doors were.

In the lobby? Why were the lobby windows blown out? In the basement? Why?

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Because large explosions can shatter windows a long distance away. Also, if the fuel ran down the express elevator shafts and exploded, which is what happened, the most likely place for that explosion to vent itself would be in the lobby where the only express elevator doors were.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CrazyPsycho,

I encourage you to read this paper on the controlled demolition theory. It was written by experts in the controlled demolition field.

A Critical Analysis of the Collapse of WTC Towers 1, 2, & 7 from an Explosives and Conventional Demolition Industry Viewpoint

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll do the same if you watch the video. And not cop-out after 20 minutes.

[/ QUOTE ]
Come on, did you even read any of the stuff I wrote after just those 20 minutes? This video is nothing new. It's intentionally misleading and is intellectually dishonest. There's no reason to watch more, it'll just be more of the same.

All of these videos play off of peoples' misunderstandings of how engineering and physics work.

Re: 9-11 Demolition Documentary..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CrazyPsycho,

I encourage you to read this paper on the controlled demolition theory. It was written by experts in the controlled demolition field.

A Critical Analysis of the Collapse of WTC Towers 1, 2, & 7 from an Explosives and Conventional Demolition Industry Viewpoint

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll do the same if you watch the video. And not cop-out after 20 minutes.

[/ QUOTE ]
Come on, did you even read any of the stuff I wrote after just those 20 minutes? This video is nothing new. It's intentionally misleading and is intellectually dishonest. There's no reason to watch more, it'll just be more of the same.

All of these videos play off of peoples' misunderstandings of how engineering and physics work.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think all the good stuff is in the 2nd video.

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Let me ask you one thing then, why do you expect them to be more intellectually honest and less misleading in the second video?

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I give up. Everyone has their opinion. Either watch it or don't. Thought some people might find it interesting, apparently not. All these videos(even the offical ones), have their own agenda. I don't know who to believe. That's why I watch them all and form my own opinion. I am far from an expert on any of this, there are pieces that don't fit any way you look at it.

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[ QUOTE ]
I give up. Everyone has their opinion. Either watch it or don't. Thought some people might find it interesting, apparently not. All these videos(even the offical ones), have their own agenda. I don't know who to believe. That's why I watch them all and form my own opinion. I am far from an expert on any of this, there are pieces that don't fit any way you look at it.

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Good, you're looking at it the right way, but I'm telling you right now that the videos you linked are no better than watching Sesame Street to figure out what happened.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I give up. Everyone has their opinion. Either watch it or don't. Thought some people might find it interesting, apparently not. All these videos(even the offical ones), have their own agenda. I don't know who to believe. That's why I watch them all and form my own opinion. I am far from an expert on any of this, there are pieces that don't fit any way you look at it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good, you're looking at it the right way, but I'm telling you right now that the videos you linked are no better than watching Sesame Street to figure out what happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe a video with demolition experts over you, but you didn't get that far(not trying to attack you in any way). How about the steel that was bent in half, but there was no cracking, is that even possible? The angled cuts of the core(the way they demolish buildings)? I just like to be able to see the evidence, rather than read it in a paper that says "Trust me, I'm an expert". I was entertained by Loose Change, but didn't believe much of it at all. I don't think this video is trying to tell you this is exactly what happened, they are just putting things out there to make your own decision.

I guess it really all boils down to whether you believe the collapsing of the building was from the floors crashing on each other, or whether you think it was squibs.

EDIT: I went back through some of your posts, and I guess another major problem is this has never happened before, so we having nothing to base our opinions on. It depends on where the witnesses were located, according to the video there would have to be many, many small explosions to knock the bolts off, and several large ones at the bottom to cut the core. I just find this stuff fascinating, as you can see, how there could be SO MANY different things at work here.

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I don't think this video is trying to tell you this is exactly what happened, they are just putting things out there to make your own decision.

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This is exactly what the video is doing, and it's exactly what they want you to do. The problem is that they're giving bogus explanations and being misleading! When that is the case, you absolutely cannot take what they say to be true and you cannot use it to base your opinions on what happened. I pointed out half a dozen stupid things in the first 20 minutes alone, and it was late and I was tired. I probably could have come up with more.

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[ QUOTE ]
I give up. Everyone has their opinion. Either watch it or don't. Thought some people might find it interesting, apparently not. All these videos(even the offical ones), have their own agenda. I don't know who to believe. That's why I watch them all and form my own opinion. I am far from an expert on any of this, there are pieces that don't fit any way you look at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to graduate fron cynicism to skepticism.

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steel can and does do this when heated up to the temperatures that the fire burned at.

Do you have any background in science or engineering? I have a feeling you don't. There are conspiracy theories all over the web. Was JFK killed by the CIA? Did aliens crash in Roswell? Is Elvis really alive?

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steel can and does do this when heated up to the temperatures that the fire burned at.

Do you have any background in science or engineering? I have a feeling you don't. There are conspiracy theories all over the web. Was JFK killed by the CIA? Did aliens crash in Roswell? Is Elvis really alive?

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LOL, obviously I don't, but of course that makes me a retard and guys that do 100% correct. I'm not saying that Bush is behind this or any of that garbage, I just think the buildings were demolished for some reason.

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I recognize going into this I'm not going to change anyone's mind on what happened, but I feel I must respond. Here goes.

My wife is a structural engineer for a well regarded international firm. She says the building did exactly what it was supposed to - take the impact of an airplane and allow the safe evacuation of most of the office workers on the unaffected floors below. The collapse afterwards was inevitable because of the way the floors were supported between the internal and external columns and the failure of the angle clips that held them due to the deflection of the outer columns and the fire raging on the effected floors.

The explosions people heard before the collapses were likely the failure of the angle clips as they allowed the floors to collapse onto lower floors. The fact seemed to come from the basement was likely a result of acoustics (vibrations move through solid materials too, you know).

A few drawings of the angle clips and their relationship with the columns can be found here:

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html

The licensed structural engineering community is very small. To date, I am unable to find anyone with an license to practice structural engineering who believes the conspiracy. We trust these people every day with our lives because of their review and oversight of construction and retrofit on virtually every structure we are in, out, and around on a daily basis. To me, the lack of consensus on the structural engineering community speaks volumes - mainly, the conspiracy ain't true.

To not believe these folks is to assume that the whole structural engineering profession is a hoax. For proof that it isn't, look at California or Japan when they get an earthquake of 7.0 or higher, and look at similar earthquakes in Turkey or Iran. Hardly anyone dies in Japan or California, thousands die in Turkey or Iran. You would be amazed at the amount of analysis these people do on inane topics like connecting beams with columns to deal with failure they call “punch and shear failure” – the cause for most of the damage in the Northridge earthquake. Google that to see what I mean.

What our government has done in the name of 'freedom' after 9/11 is the real conspiracy. Go investigate that if you really want to get angry.

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I wasn't there either, but planes with full loads of fuel crashed into both towers. No way these were small fires. Look at the videos. Look at the amount of smoke and flames produced. There were several thousand gallons of jet fuel burning. These were the biggest, hottest fires ever to hit highrise buildings. To compare these to ordinary fires burning carpeting and furniture is absurd. I will say again: by Occam's Razor, the plane crashes and fires did cause the collapse, regardlesss of any hand-waving explanations of how they couldn't possibly have done so. If you want to propose an alternate cause for the collapses, show me some supporting evidence.

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Exellent post, and very good link.