Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

back to this game once again: which one(s) of these did i win?


Hand 1: villian is forum HU king EM2. for a little while he used to play way over aggressive against me, but the last couple weeks, we have played a decent amount and he has been showing me a good amount of respect. He has paid me off less than most regulars probably would in similar spots. I feel like he reraises AK most of the time pf, but might not always i guess. I feel like AT will have a tough time calling and not sure about AQ.



Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop

Button ($3703.22)
SB ($3141.64)
BB ($2714)
Hero ($2946.48)
MP ($1823.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $70</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls $50.

Flop: ($150) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $130</font>, BB calls $130.

Turn: ($410) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $340</font>, BB calls $340.

River: ($1090) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $955</font>




Hand 2: villian is boooostedJ. he 3 bets a [censored] ton, always. i have recently begun calling his pf 3 bets with a pretty huge range, which he knows. we played tons of pots together that day, with me probably getting the best of it, but he has also ran into a couple big hands of mine.
he hesitated maybe 10-12 secs on the turn and checked the river after about 5 secs. I wasnt sure if i was done with the hand when he called the turn, but that river pretty much forced me to bluff again i think.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop
SB ($1980)
BB ($9865)
UTG ($2006)
MP ($5204)
Hero ($5453)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $70</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $235</font>, Hero calls $185.

Flop: ($520) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $355</font>, Hero calls $355.

Turn: ($1230) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $800</font>, BB calls $800.

River: ($2830) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1200</font>


pfr here is unknown but has a taggish screename and samo is the in-between caller.

I had been fairly quiet on the table thus far.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|
UTG ($3490.73)
MP ($3775.18)
Hero ($6063.31)
Button ($4620.25)
SB ($91.24)
BB ($904.14)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $94.77</font>, MP calls $94.77, Hero calls $94.77, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: ($314.31) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $127.17</font>, MP calls $127.17, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $645</font>, UTG calls $517.83, MP folds.

Turn: ($1731.48) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($1731.48) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1250</font>


any comments appreciated.


fsuplayer

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

I would say you likely won hand 2, though I am not sure it's a bluff. I could see you winning hand 1, but it just kinda seems like a bluff, so I would tend to think it gets picked off by an A. Hand 3, I can't see you winning.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

1- i think you got called

2-i think worked, basically b/c the board texture is so ugly for most of his range

3-i think you got called or c/red, but it's also possible he folded, although im leaning towards thinking this one didn't work

i love these posts, btw

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

i think only 2 worked

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

edited to say that i [censored] up when making the OP and in the 3rd hand, obviously i was against the pfr. i got messed up when posting the hand and hence my hand range for him is retarded.

ill delete it out.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

okay and krantz- if u dont mind, id still love to hear comments about hand #3 with the new edit.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

I think 2 might have worked (although I would have bet more)

I think #3 was your worst bluff. I always get called when I check behind on the turn and then fire the river.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

Cool post.

Hand 1: I really think he has AQ (maybe AK) or better and you are getting called. You raised UTG and he's been giving you respect, I think he's pitching most weaker aces from OOP.

Hand 2: He 3-bets a lot and ya'll are deep but I just give this one up preflop. Boring I know. I'd probably just check the river but I think if I bet I'd bet a lot more.

Hand 3: I like this one.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

You won #2, if any.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

Hand 1 - I think you got called. Board is drawless - yeah, the 4 got there, but not much else is out there. How often would you say you three-barrel? If not often, maybe you forced a fold of AQ.

Hand 2 - how is that a good card for you to bet? Your hand has some showdown value - are you trying to fold out better nines and any tens? It's a pretty thin bluff. I can't imagine you're folding out an overpair for that little - I dunno how much metagame you have w/ Booosted or if you intentionally sized your bet to look like an overpair should pay it off - but booosted's range here is enormous, no? He's calling w/ any J, any 8, any KQ.

Hand 3 worked.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

Well, I'm playing so I'll try and make some quick comments...

Hand 1: You seem to be betting a larger amount than what seems normal for a good/strong hand. There are no draws out and it looks like you want to put him to a tougher decision by calling bigger bets.

Hand 2: Boosted has a wide rr range, esp. from a LP opener, so on the flop he cbets to take it down, and then he c/c turn, which seems like he has a questionable hand with some type of overcards/straight draw (with a Q). I think he plays a semi strong to strong hand a lot more aggressively.

Hand 3: It looks like a steal on the flop after he weak leads into a decent field on a drawy flop and so after he calls, and you check behind the turn, it looks more so like a steal though I can see a draw doing this as well, but then when the flush hits on the river, he's like, "well, he may have been on a steal, and this is a perfect card to try and take it away from me on, so I call". Plus, he very well, could have a flush or straight himself.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

triumph-

hand #2's bet was intentionally sized that way.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
okay and krantz- if u dont mind, id still love to hear comments about hand #3 with the new edit.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah. well, i think most average unknown players might lead the river with an overpair or flush after the turn got checked through, so they might have Tx and then fold to your bet. although unknowns sometimes surprise me with good lines.

but i'm still erring on the side of they're going to call you, mainly because you checked the turn and the pot was kept as small as possible for whatever hand they have. IMO, if you're going to raise this flop with air (against an unknown) and don't pick up any backdoor outs or a pair on the turn, you need to follow through on the turn or give up the bluff.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

I like the first two. Third one is meh. Villain seems more like a fish than a TAG f/ his bet size.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like the first two. Third one is meh. Villain seems more like a fish than a TAG f/ his bet size.

[/ QUOTE ]

i duno how much party you play lately, but lolo started programming his bets like that with AHK and i think there are a couple of copycats out there. so i wouldn't put too much stock in the bet size amt.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the first two. Third one is meh. Villain seems more like a fish than a TAG f/ his bet size.

[/ QUOTE ]

i duno how much party you play lately, but lolo started programming his bets like that with AHK and i think there are a couple of copycats out there. so i wouldn't put too much stock in the bet size amt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not talking abt the pennies but the fact that he bets 1/3 pot into 2 players on the flop.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

good point

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

interesting concept for a post. obviously, these are all highly situation dependent. dissecting the hands in a vacuum, here are some thoughts:

your story in hand 1 doesn't add up to a big hand. and any hand with showdown value against villain's range would likely be checked behind on the river. so your firing on the river smells a lot like a bluff, unless you are prone to super thin value bets.

in hand 2, i think you have the potential to push villain off a better hand, but i think your bet size seems a little to small. i would put in about 2400-2500 at least, and villain has a hard time calling this without a jack or better. against a villain is who is capable of over analyzing the situation, your small bet could work.

on hand 3 river is a good scare card, so there is a chance this one can work against most hands in villain's range except tt. but it only costs him 1250 to call, so it's a toss up.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
your story in hand 1 doesn't add up to a big hand. and any hand with showdown value against villain's range would likely be checked behind on the river. so your firing on the river smells a lot like a bluff, unless you are prone to super thin value bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

i cant ever have a set or two pair or maybe AK here?

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Cool post.

Hand 1: I really think he has AQ (maybe AK) or better and you are getting called. You raised UTG and he's been giving you respect, I think he's pitching most weaker aces from OOP.

Hand 2: He 3-bets a lot and ya'll are deep but I just give this one up preflop. Boring I know. I'd probably just check the river but I think if I bet I'd bet a lot more.

Hand 3: I like this one.

[/ QUOTE ]



totally agree.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

Hand 1 I think might have worked, but I would REALLY have liked a slight overbet given board texture and how the hand played out. I think 1500 is very good here, its pretty much crystal clear he has AQ or AT, and as for calling that bet, it's the same hand for him. I think this bluff is fine, but a slight overbet is perfect here imo.

Hand 2 Is fine and I think he folded, although I would have liked a c/r AI from boosted here, haha. I mean obviously we can check behind turn here, and will do so some of the time, but mike is entirely correct in firing river when he's fired turn and got called here.

Hand 3 I don't like that much.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

fsu, you took me off the winner in hand #3! I actually sniffed something funny and was so very close to RERAISING you on the flop when it got back to me - especially since OP took so much time to call. Oops did not mean to give it away.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

great post by the way. I like your play in hand #1 and #3 (although I know the results of #3). hand 2 is iffy in my opinion. ... of course now that I said that, I bet that is the one you won? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
great post by the way. I like your play in hand #1 and #3 (although I know the results of #3). hand 2 is iffy in my opinion. ... of course now that I said that, I bet that is the one you won? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

he could have won one of the others too, hand 1 seems way more likely than hand 2 imo

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

bluff bigger. like 2x pot.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
bluff bigger. like 2x pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

gett your oqwn aestrats bitch

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

I think #1 worked and #2,3 failed.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

#1 and #3 worked. #2 failed.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

nice post.

if #3 worked i'll eat my hat.

#1 is good if you dont 3 barrell that often, and/or em2 doesn't think you would or hasn't seen you do it. it looks like he has exactly what you think here and you may not have bet enough for him to fold. betting something like 1350 or 1425 here would make yoru line more believable. i think you got called here.

your bet sizes in #2 and the way it played out make me think it's the one that worked just because it doesn't look like bj has much and his timing thing there makes me think that he considered a river bluff but gave it up and is resigning the pot to you. the turn pause may have been to set up the river bluff he decided against.

Barron

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

i feel like giving my thoughts even though i don't know what i'm talking about.

hand 1--

This didn't work. I don't expect him to call out of the bb with A10, and I expect him to reraise preflop with AK. I think you only get AJ to fold. If he had you on a big A, this would be a really cool line with a set.

Hand 2--

this one is good; i bet it worked. it seems that he has an overpair and based on your actions, he only beats a bluff. also, you made it look like you're hoping for a call, which i like.

Hand 3--

i dunno. not gonna even try to analyze this one.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

U def dint win hand 1. Hand 2 maybe, its a good bet. hand 3 yes.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

Hand 1 looks good. Even if you get called it's great for metagame.

Hand 2 is pretty bad vs particular villian. You have minimal showdown value on river and I'd take it. The turn is a bad spot to bluff IMO, and the river bet is too small.

Hand 3 I don't like the flop play but river is fine.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 looks good. Even if you get called it's great for metagame.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. When two players go at it and each is aware that the other is capable of a three barrel bluff, metagame considerations take a back seat, and to reason away a bad bluff becomes a cop out. It's just two players adapting to one another's patterns, which is a vastly different situation than running a large bluff against a fish because even if he calls, the money is live and he will pay you off nearly every single time in the future.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
U def dint win hand 1. Hand 2 maybe, its a good bet. hand 3 yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im pretty sure he won hand 1 because i dont remeber the hand or calling but I could be wrong

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

not having read any replies but so far i think that if flow/history between u and EM2 isn't totally fscked, he folded hand 1. idk tho, he has called my 3/4 pot, 3/4 pot, slightly overbet push from UTG with second pair jack kicker before.

hand 2: for some reason, i always play like dogshit against boosted. i never do the right move ande he always does the right move. i think he'd def call it against me :P and i think he called your bet too.

i don't think hand 3 worked out simply because that line never works. he knows you'll rep it a lot so he'll never give you credit. i do that a lot and it's kinda spewy imo. push would probably work tho.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
U def dint win hand 1. Hand 2 maybe, its a good bet. hand 3 yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im pretty sure he won hand 1 because i dont remeber the hand or calling but I could be wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

Then i have over-estimated you.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

haven't read responses, think hand 2 you won, hand 1 you definitely lost, hand 3 you likely lost.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

I think they all three worked.

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

uhm I'm pretty much thinking the contrary of everyone here.

1: Most of the time this is gonna work. He's usually 3 betting AK pre and the only hand he's calling you down with is AQ wich he might fold depending on how you guys play each other.

2: Pretty sure did not work. Can't really explain why, it just feels wrong.

3: I think it worked here but I like an allin bet alot better(vs an unknown).

Re: Which Bluff(s) Worked?
 

mdma-

in a vacuum, an overbet might be best on the river in hand 1, but i so rarely river overbet, i think a good player like EM2 could pick up on that. also, i would bet about the same amount with AA, AJ or 44.