15/30 66 hand
 

Party Poker 15.00/30.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(6 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>.

Flop: (5.00 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero?

Opponent is 38/20 somewhat agro.

That is a [censored] turn card and I really have no idea how to play it

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

If you dont trust the guy, there is nothing wrong with checking behind with your pair/flush draw and calling the river.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you dont trust the guy, there is nothing wrong with checking behind with your pair/flush draw and calling the river.

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Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

what rivers are we folding if we check behind on the turn and he bets into us?

I'm not liking any broadway river

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

these hands are the toughest. you cant bet and call down clearly. checking through and calling rivers is pretty standard. i dont think you can fold any river honestly. so what if an ace or kings falls..why do yo put him on a face card?

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

I call any non Q-river. SB's range as a 38/20 is huge and his aggro (and lack thereof in this hand) should make you distrust him.

-eric

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

If you cant b/f ---&gt; check through and call trhe river.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

Maybe it's just me, but I value bet here.

No God damned way I'm giving the likes of x,7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] a free card.

(If raised, it's a very marginal difference whether to call or fold. I'm estimating about 5-6 effective outs and we'd be getting about 6:1 to call, and villain is "aggro" so there are implied odds, especially if we spike a two-outer.

As I said, though ... very marginal difference, but I think the weight should be towards bet/folding the turn.

Regardless, check-fold and non- [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] river).


Adam

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

Sometimes, just sometimes, I bet and 3bet when he c/r's me. I think we are pretty ahead here, I really want to bet. He c/r's us with [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]'s on the flop almost always.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

I think checking the turn is pretty bad. Very loose players are seldom folding this flop and you are quite often ahead here.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

I think we're ahead here so often, that we have to bet this turn, and I don't really mind calling down the c/r against many of these guys. More specific reads could sway me to a check through, but assuming he peels the flop almost always, we have to bet. Am I crazy, or just stupid?

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

I think you should bet and call a raise. SB could be peeling with all sorts of hands on this fairly dry flop, and there's a good chance he'll either fold or take a shot at you with a worse hand. Checking might induce a river bluff, but I think you'll be missing out on a lot of value by not betting.

Just my opinion...

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

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If you cant b/f ---&gt; check through and call trhe river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. You can't put another bet in unless you're willing to fold at least some of the time. You have to have a read to fold to or call his raise so don't give him the opportunity without one. I'd take it to SD as cheaply as I could.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

Does the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the turn change anyone's answer (action if it's a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] not a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

I'd be even more inlcined to bet, and fold to a c/r.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the turn change anyone's answer (action if it's a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] not a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])

[/ QUOTE ]

With no read, I'm more inclined to value bet as there are fewer ways I'm beat.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

Not only are you ahead ALOT here, but also if you are beat you often have a ton of outs. It is very rare for your opponent to have both a better made hand and draw than you. Also, against a flush you have hidden outs (the nines).

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

bet/call

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not only are you ahead ALOT here, but also if you are beat you often have a ton of outs. It is very rare for your opponent to have both a better made hand and draw than you. Also, against a flush you have hidden outs (the nines).

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is small and there is a decent chance hero is the one who is drawing. A LAG just calling a paired flop is somewhat suspicious. Also the turn card sucks. There is nothing wrong with inducing a bluff here.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

The way I handle these types of situations is:

Vs someone who is predictable or over-aggressive, I bet/call, otherwise if I'm not at all sure I will check behind.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

I don't understand why this turn is so bad. Aggressive guys are checkraising this flop with a flush draw nearly always. He could have a 9 or a Q, but I think I have to value bet because the most likely hand for him in my opinion is Ace high. Im getting called or checkraised by any diamond and probably called by Ace high no diamond.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why this turn is so bad. Aggressive guys are checkraising this flop with a flush draw nearly always. He could have a 9 or a Q, but I think I have to value bet because the most likely hand for him in my opinion is Ace high. Im getting called or checkraised by any diamond and probably called by Ace high no diamond.

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Yep. I don't think checking behind here is good. First, his range is heavy with mediocre ace highs. He almost certainly doesn't have a flush draw, and I think it's more likely that he'll c/r bluff the turn than he will bluff the river if you check behind. So you're ahead a lot, when you're not you probably have outs, and he may launch an expensive bluff in a small pot from time to time.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

why would an agro guy automatically raise this flop with a flushdraw or overcards?

look at the board, for him it is much better to wait for the turn regardless because I'm not folding on that flop

if he is looking for me to fold A high then he must wait for the turn because most A high hands are calling down a flop raise

if the turn card is scary for me and i check behind he pretty much knows what i have so he at least gets a freecard which is of some value to him and can also valuebet pretty easily, so waiting for the turn is a far better play for him

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
why would an agro guy automatically raise this flop with a flushdraw or overcards?

look at the board, for him it is much better to wait for the turn regardless because I'm not folding on that flop

if he is looking for me to fold A high then he must wait for the turn because most A high hands are calling down a flop raise

if the turn card is scary for me and i check behind he pretty much knows what i have so he at least gets a freecard which is of some value to him and can also valuebet pretty easily, so waiting for the turn is a far better play for him

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I agree. I don't know why everyone is saying that all aggro guys CR this flop. If I'm against someone tightish, I CR the turn here lots. CRing the flop on this board here seems to scream 'bluff.'

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
The pot is small and there is a decent chance hero is the one who is drawing. A LAG just calling a paired flop is somewhat suspicious. Also the turn card sucks. There is nothing wrong with inducing a bluff here.

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I agree with this. Its not like he always will checkraise if he got nothing on this turn, he will normally fold. But if we check and give him 3 outs with his A5o he will "always" bet river (at least more often then he cr turn). And if he is ahead, well, we do a nice check with our fine outs.

Re: 15/30 66 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
why would an agro guy automatically raise this flop with a flushdraw or overcards?

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I understand your points, but I'm not sure he does. Also, the chance of me bet/folding the turn vs an aggressive 38/20 when I have showdown value and the flop was 993 is near zero.