Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

KKF is on the button with around a 9k stack, and raises it up to 175. I call in the SB with 22 and cover.

Flop: 9 9 2 r. JACKPOT

I check, KKF checks behind.

Turn: K

I bet 340, KKF calls

River: 3

I bet around 1,000, Kane reraises to 2,000. What would you do here in this situation??

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

Hope he has a nine and push? Cant see folding this ever, and a smaller raise lets him off too easy and gives the strength of your hand away as well. If he calls any more he probably needs a 9, or maybe hell overplay AK but I doubt it. Have you been overbetting pots allin at all, either as a bluff or made hand? If you have, this play will work alot better.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

This session I have been kind of loose preflop, but I have stayed in line post flop. I have not really bluffed at all this whole session, except for my one bluff against Kane earlier. I have kept the pots size under control for the most part.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

Is raise to 4k + fold to push a terrible idea here?

Basically, how often will he 4-bet with a hand you beat, and how often will he pay off a bigger raise with worse hands?

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

I´d fold preflop easy fast. Call the river is probably fine, as raising small sucks and pushing sucks. But if we reraise, I can´t imagine it not being all in.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

If u think he doesnt call push with anything worse, then just call. I would call against the solid ones and push against others.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

just call. you're probably good but i dont see him paying off with a worse hand unless he's tilting or something.

that said, i'd be looking to c/r this river as a default line.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

call

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

What do you put him on?

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

Well I can't really put him on a 9 with him checking the flop and just flat calling the turn. I was thinking he might have hit AK, KQ on the turn, but he wouldn't raise with either of those hands. So I began thinking with the way he played the hand he either had nothing or somehow picked up a monster, and I got freaked out thinking that he somehow hit threes full or kings full, and I really didnt want to lose 7k If I reraised and he had hit his miracle card. Plus he is good enough to fold almost all hands that I beat, so I just opted to call. But I felt weird about it, so I wanted to know what u guys thought.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

What color of a skirt does KKF have you wearing?

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

[ QUOTE ]
What color of a skirt does KKF have you wearing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I don't see a lot of value in reraising.

NT

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

I'm pretty sure he was picking up on the thought process, not just the end results. "I didn't want to lose 7K" is not a good thought process...

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

uhm, you call. if you raise here youre just asking for it.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

It sucks, but you call here against him, because he is good enough to get away from some good hands to a 3 bet here, unless you have a super good image right now in which case i would be omre inclined to play for stacks. Generally though, this is call.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

wtf are you guys talking about.

What do you think he has? 99? KK? K9? This is crazy. Also, bet the flop already, do you think you are going to make a fortune from AK if he hits a pair on the turn?

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

I think It's a shove, and not very close.

#1) Does KKF really check behind with KK on this flop? Possibly with K9.

#2) Would he really miniraise for value with a higher full house on the river?

#3) Have any of you played with cardshark before?

Presto push.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

Do either of you play with KKF? It is a serious question, if so, than i would really be surpised. Because if you did, you would know that he varies his lines more than literally just about any other player i know. He is absolutley capable of having KK, K9, maybe even 33 here. I have not played with him a ton or anything, but you really seem to have no clue how he plays.

Another part of the equation that you have totally overlooked is the fact that we need not only to have the best hand, but to get paid of as well. Someone like KKF doesn't just raise the river on paired boards and then play for 2 buy in stacks without boat without a VERY good reason to. That is why i said, depending on Cardsharks current table image, there might occasion be times to play for stacks because KKF cannot fold a 9, but generally he will be able to. I can buy that there are sometimes to re-raise this river, but saying "OH WTF EZ PUSH!!!!" pretty much diminishes all your credability, because generally that would be incorrect. You need to stop thinking of this as a hand against some donk who minraises the river with 98s and then calls off pot sized re-raised here, it's just not gonna happen that often, period. I would tend to call here and expect to have the best hand a pretty good amount of the time.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think It's a shove, and not very close.

#1) Does KKF really check behind with KK on this flop? Possibly with K9.

#2) Would he really miniraise for value with a higher full house on the river?

#3) Have any of you played with cardshark before?

Presto push.

[/ QUOTE ]

The minraise is such an unusual move here. I feel like this could often be a bluff given the action... he might be putting hero on a steal. What range do u think villian is on good2cu?

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

I guess people playing like this against him is a big reason why KKF is winning so much. No, I have never played against your boy, but this whole thread is silly.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess people playing like this against him is a big reason why KKF is winning so much. No, I have never played against your boy, but this whole thread is silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is the thread silly? I see valid points to pushing and to calling.

EDIT: Actually pushing he is probably only calling with hands that beat us and folding worse ones... dunno.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

ggb,

the point good2cu is making is that KKF might be minraising TO INDUCE A BLUFF with a worse hand than ours very often. i don't know how often this is true, but the thought has merit and i also like a push if cardshark has the right image for it.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

looks like KKF has a 9 or AK here. whether or not he will payoff with worse to a river 3bet depends on your image.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

Duck,

I understand that point. However, that is so unlikley because of that turn card. Kanes range here is pretty simple... He has a full house, in which case we lose. He is a bluffing, in which case we win, but gain nothing from push. The last possibility is that he has a worse made hand. This will consist mostly of 9x and Kx hands, which perhaps some other random ones thrown in. Now, with these stacks, he simply is not going to raise a King on the river and then subseuqntly play for stacks... in reality, he will not do this with any hand worse hand a 9. So i mean, if he has EXACTLY A9, maybe he wants to induce the push from a worse 9, but he isn't going to raise 9Ts hoping to induce a push for a worse 9 or hoping that cardshark is going 2 barrel the turn and river and push over that bet. I mean look, there is almost no way to put CS on a boat, and he did not re-raise the river with that, so i just think the parley we need to hit to make a re-raise correct here is quite long.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess people playing like this against him is a big reason why KKF is winning so much. No, I have never played against your boy, but this whole thread is silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

What limits do you generally play? Do you play 25-50?

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

i'm playing like [censored] right now but i'd say he has A9, gives you credit for being able to fold bare trips to a push but wants more value out of the hand since he decided to slowplay or whatever. no boats make any sense at all. push.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

Do you think he value raises A9, but not Q9? How about J9 ot T9? Approximatley what do you think the cut off is for him to make a value raise? The main problem here is there a lot of hands he might value raise with, but not call a 3rd bet.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

who knows who cares, i just think that the $ we lose when we push into his weird ass play full house is way compensated for by the times he calls the push with something like A9 - mainly because 93 shouldn't really be in KKFs range. it's also nice for image to push thin obv, it's so much harder to try [censored] like this against someone who you know has the stones to come over the top without KK here.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

I'd probably overbet river, or c/r river.

As played, I just call.

The problem is that he probably never raises like this w/ AK, and he knows that we know this, because of this it's very unlikely he would think we WOULD actually push as a bluff (pretty much represeting a boat or A9 ourselves), this because he's pretty much declaring he has a 9 at himself at WORST, and that makes it a pretty bad spot to "bluff" him, which he should realize. If we had reason to believe he would ever do this w/ AK, which I really doubt (like som very, very thin induce bluff-line looking to call a push), then we might consider pushing here for value, but if he's NEVER raising this hand w/ worse than a 9 (or as a bluff of course, that doesn't matter), then I feel pushing/reraising here is pretty bad because he should realize it's not often a bluff.

Sure, one might believe that if he's still doing that bluff-induce raise with a good hand, but still worse than ours, than we can push, but I don't likely he IS doing that induce-bluff-play UNLESS he's also raising w/ AK, because he realizes that as soon as we think he's never doing it w/ AK, then we aren't very prone to actually try to bluff him since we cannot be sure of what hands we'd actually be betting for value when we aren't getting called by AK.

I mean he's good; he realizes we would not push like this w/ just a 9 (except perhaps A9) after he minraises (unless the very unlikely scenario I presented above was valid, e.g him doing this w/ AK/9 to induce a BIG bluff and call, but I don't think it is, he's just raising 9s+), and that makes every 9 he has a bluffcatcher, so why would he ever call A9 more often than Q9 if he push, unless he's hoping to catch a bluff or, if we have a valid hand, a split at best (w/ A9).

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

Is there a special reason you can't reraise some amount less than a push? And this is ten handed?

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

noone has mentioned his most likely hand...AA...god i'm sick at reading hands

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

AK and AA are the same, thats why no one bothered even mentioning that. When people are doing AK anaylsis in this hand its the same as AA.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

I think u should push.

This would be a good spot for a 3 bet river bluff and he could very well look up with a worse hand.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

ahnuld,

youre really really wrong

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

[ QUOTE ]
No, I have never played against your boy, but this whole thread is silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Solitaire is a fun game.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

ridic easy call.. shoving has no value. holla

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

[ QUOTE ]
ahnuld,

youre really really wrong

[/ QUOTE ]


explain to me how our analysis differs if KKF has AK or AA.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ahnuld,

youre really really wrong

[/ QUOTE ]


explain to me how our analysis differs if KKF has AK or AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he might be raising the river for value with AA hoping to get called by AK?

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

Cardshark reraises AK preflop more often than not in that spot. Kane raised from the button. It is really unlikely.

Re: Who reraises here?? Me vs KKF again at 25/50
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do either of you play with KKF? It is a serious question, if so, than i would really be surpised. Because if you did, you would know that he varies his lines more than literally just about any other player i know. He is absolutley capable of having KK, K9, maybe even 33 here. I have not played with him a ton or anything, but you really seem to have no clue how he plays.

Another part of the equation that you have totally overlooked is the fact that we need not only to have the best hand, but to get paid of as well. Someone like KKF doesn't just raise the river on paired boards and then play for 2 buy in stacks without boat without a VERY good reason to. That is why i said, depending on Cardsharks current table image, there might occasion be times to play for stacks because KKF cannot fold a 9, but generally he will be able to. I can buy that there are sometimes to re-raise this river, but saying "OH WTF EZ PUSH!!!!" pretty much diminishes all your credability, because generally that would be incorrect. You need to stop thinking of this as a hand against some donk who minraises the river with 98s and then calls off pot sized re-raised here, it's just not gonna happen that often, period. I would tend to call here and expect to have the best hand a pretty good amount of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

#1) Yes.
#2) I think we are behind here like 2% of the time.

IMO KKF has pretty clearly defined his hand here. He knows this and probaly assumes he know this also. When he shove he assumes we either have a FH or a bluff. So he calls sometimes.

OMZG PUSH!


OMZG PUSH!