a few interesting river stats
 

post your

a) river aggression
b) W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river
c) folded to river bet
d) W$SD when just called
e) went to showdown

all these can be found in the more details section

mine are:
a) 2.15
b) 77.23
c) 35.15
d) 23.19
e) 39.67

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
post your

a) river aggression 1.69
b) W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river 78.18%
c) folded to river bet 40.02%
d) W$SD when just called 29.74%
e) went to showdown 36.34%

all these can be found in the more details section

mine are:
a) 2.15
b) 77.23
c) 35.15
d) 23.19
e) 39.67

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

ooh, i like stats posts. they quantitatively show how everyone is better than me.

a)1.57
b)77.07
c)36.27
d)33.74
e)37.25

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

1.9

77.63

31.98

31.59

36.65

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

a) 1.75
b) 75.80
c) 31.34
d) 27.03
e) 38.67

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

last 60k, 10/20-50/100

river aggression: 1.84
W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river: 79.11
folded to river bet: 38.77
W$SD when just called: 30.27
went to showdown: 35.43

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

a) river aggression 1.43
b) W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river73.7
c) folded to river bet36.24
d) W$SD when just called28.94
e) went to showdown38.66

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

Everybody's W$SD when bet/raised/CR is around 75 to 77. Mine is 74. I've often wondered about this stat, and thought that maybe it was too high. I mean, an argument could be made that something in the 50's is ideal. 51% would probably be too low because you couldn't overcome situations where you were raised.

On the whole, isn't 75% too high, and indicative of the fact that we're not betting/raising for value enough?

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
post your

a) river aggression
b) W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river
c) folded to river bet
d) W$SD when just called
e) went to showdown

all these can be found in the more details section

mine are:
a) 2.15
b) 77.23
c) 35.15
d) 23.19
e) 39.67

[/ QUOTE ]

a) 1.60
b) 78.87
c) 39.36
d) 29.5
e) 38.07

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody's W$SD when bet/raised/CR is around 75 to 77. Mine is 74. I've often wondered about this stat, and thought that maybe it was too high. I mean, an argument could be made that something in the 50's is ideal. 51% would probably be too low because you couldn't overcome situations where you were raised.

On the whole, isn't 75% too high, and indicative of the fact that we're not betting/raising for value enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very possible, but keep in mind that this stat includes the times that we bet out or bet when checked to and were just called. Nothing else we could have done there. If one could see a "W$SD when Raised/Check-Raised river" then this number should probably be in the high 50s or maybe lower if we factor in that we sometimes do this as a bluff.

me May-June

a: 1.73
b: 79% (so I learned something today)
c: 38.7%
d: 33%
e: 35%

Although, if there is an ideal stat in here somewhere, it's probably somewhat dependant on VPIP as well.

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

mine are:
a) 1.86
b) 78.76
c) 37.67
d) 27.71
e) 34.88

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody's W$SD when bet/raised/CR is around 75 to 77. Mine is 74. I've often wondered about this stat, and thought that maybe it was too high. I mean, an argument could be made that something in the 50's is ideal. 51% would probably be too low because you couldn't overcome situations where you were raised.

On the whole, isn't 75% too high, and indicative of the fact that we're not betting/raising for value enough?

[/ QUOTE ]


I can't go into too much detail here about why your logic is off, but i think around 77.5 minus a few % points depending on bluffing frequency is ideal based on theory.

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, an argument could be made that something in the 50's is ideal. 51% would probably be too low because you couldn't overcome situations where you were raised.

On the whole, isn't 75% too high, and indicative of the fact that we're not betting/raising for value enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. I know because I made the same mistake several months ago [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Someone (I think JeffW) politely informed me that the reason this stat isnt in the 50s is that although the MINIMUM probability we need to be ahead when called is 55% or whatever, the AVERAGE probability we are ahead when making correct value bets is the average of every situation. The worst of this family of correct situations are the ones you are thinking of, the 55% type. But the best of this family is when we have the absolute nuts on the river, the 100% type. There are of course many in between.

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]


a) river aggression - 2.03
b) W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river - 76
c) folded to river bet - 42.15
d) W$SD when just called - 31.45
e) went to showdown - 35.7


[/ QUOTE ]

Could someone point out what leaks might be associated with these stats? It seems to me I might be folding too much....

Thanks,
Jonah

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:



a) river aggression - 2.03
b) W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river - 76
c) folded to river bet - 42.15
d) W$SD when just called - 31.45
e) went to showdown - 35.7




Could someone point out what leaks might be associated with these stats? It seems to me I might be folding too much....

Thanks,
Jonah

[/ QUOTE ]

One could infer that since your fold to a river bet is higher than most, and your W$SD when just called is a bit high too, that you are not calling on the river enough. But, it's hard to say with any degree of certainity with this limited data whether it is a leak or not.

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

a) river aggression: 1.83
b) W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river: 74.59
c) folded to river bet: 34.34
d) W$SD when just called: 26.76
e) went to showdown: 37.91

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

Fold to river bet and W$SD% should be higher at 2/4 and 3/6 due to the lower aggression, right? People will not stab at the pot as much of you check behind on the turn or if they miss their draw, correct?

I have a fold to river bet 44 % and W$SD% 36 % which are both much higher than the average.

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

I was told long ago by a mythical fairy priness that %70 was the magic number for (B)

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
post your

a) river aggression
b) W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river
c) folded to river bet
d) W$SD when just called
e) went to showdown



mine are:
a)2.49
b)79.03
c)38.00
d)41.94
e)30.30


I have a modest sample of about 15000hands for the reason that i'm a "new" user of the tracker. Can someone explain me what could be wrong in the way i play the river ? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]. My a), d) seem to be higher than, i think, all the stats that i have seen posted here but i don't really understand what it means.

(excuse my english, i keep learning:p)

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

a) 2.13
b) 68.62
c) 34.05
d) 24.5
e) 39.66

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

a) river aggression: 1.76
b) W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river: 80.22
c) folded to river bet: 41.38
d) W$SD when just called: 29.7
e) went to showdown: 36.07

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

1.4
79.6
35.6
32.3
36.3

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

If we an equally distribution(don't know at all if true) of hands between 100%(nut hands) and 55% winning hands that gives us a number of (100+55)/2 = 77.5 which seems to be where everyone is.

If we add the pure bluffs the number should go south.
If the games are real agressive and you have to pay off the number should go up somewhat.

Mine is by the way 76.98.

The conclustion to draw is that a number over 77.5 should value bet some more and if you are 79 or more you value bet way too few times.

With the bluffing I think the number you want to achieve should be some lower than 77 but how much I have no idea.

Anyone have anything to add to this?

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

A) 1.71
B) 75.12
C) 36.65
D) 28.93
E) 35.5

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

Thx for the explanations Erik, but i still missunderstand something. My b (W$SD) is 79.3 and then means, according to you, that i value bet not enough. But on the other hand i have a a) (aggression factor)of around 2.50, that's really high compare to the others 2+2ers who have posted their stats. How can i bet and raise by far more than the others and still have a W$SD higher?

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

this is close to correct erik, but your assumptions only work for when you are in position. your % should be significantly lower when you are out of positon. i think somewhere between 70 and 75% is ideal overall, personally.

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

Looking at your stats you need to go to showdown more often. You only take your really strong hands to SD and then your % naturally is a little higher.

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river: 76%

I never looked at this before. Thanks for the suggestion. Mine's probably a bit lower because I tend to bet really marginal hands these days and have been bluffing more at the weak tighties.

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

I find it interesting that BZ's W$SD when just called is substantially lower than the average. BZ, are you paying off river raises more than the rest of us?

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
I find it interesting that BZ's W$SD when just called is substantially lower than the average. BZ, are you paying off river raises more than the rest of us?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, i really pay off a lot (and maybe too much?)

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find it interesting that BZ's W$SD when just called is substantially lower than the average. BZ, are you paying off river raises more than the rest of us?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, i really pay off a lot (and maybe too much?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, your probably not paying off enough

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
are you paying off river raises more than the rest of us?


[/ QUOTE ]

Calling river raises is not part of that stat.

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
are you paying off river raises more than the rest of us?


[/ QUOTE ]

Calling river raises is not part of that stat.

[/ QUOTE ]


erik,

i was under the impression that any time i call on the river goes under that stat. that way if i bet and call a raise, it goes under my 'bet/raised/checkraised' stat and my 'just called' stat. is that wrong?

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

You are correct and it is what I meant but it came out a little vague.

The bet should come in under bet/raised and your call of a raise should come in under call hence if you pay off to river raises a lot it would not change your W$SD for bet/raise.

I also agree with you that 70-75 should be a good number preferable in the lower regions.
Stox is for example 70 if I remember correctly(yes I bought his db and I recommend everyone to do it too).

Lets say you value bet all your hands that have 55% to 100% chance to win and then you run a stone called bluff 10% of the the times on the river which you have 0% chance to win if called. That would make the W$SD something like = ((55+100)/2) * 10/11 = 70.5

I think that is a good number to reference too and it seems like a number some really good players have or just above it.

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

a. 1.6
b. 69.9
c. 33.3
d. 28.9
e. 38.9

Re: a few interesting river stats
 

37K at 20/40 6max

a) 1.12
b) 76.42
c) 22.04
d) 27.58
e) 42.09

a) river aggression
b) W$SD when bet/raised/checkraised river
c) folded to river bet
d) W$SD when just called
e) went to showdown