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-   -   Updated satellite strategy post (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=147829)

adanthar 06-26-2006 01:26 PM

Updated satellite strategy post
 
I promised myself that I'd post another big sat thread after I won my WSOP entry, because I'm pretty sure the first one cost me money after I wrote it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Looks like I'm set for the year now, though, so here's an update:

One year later

By and large, sats today are softer than they were. Because of sites (especially Stars) sending hundreds of people in from sub-satellites into supersats, there's tons of complete dead money that wasn't there in such numbers a year ago. This isn't exclusive to bigger sites; the Bodog WSOP sats, which paid one spot but excluded repeat winners, were simply awesome, because on top of the overlay they all had, half of their 50-100 players had no shot to win.

That has some practical implications for the types of sats you should be playing. Stars DSO's are even worse than a year ago (comparatively; I'm sure they're much easier on a per person basis) because they still have pros that dominate the last table and play for W$. Compare a 160, 81 person DSO with the 125+10 Bodog sats with 45-50 entries and no repeat winners - there's no contest. I am now pretty sure that top heavy one seat satellites should now almost never be played (except Bodog, but they stopped running those last week.) The one thing that could overcome the advantage of having multiple qualifying spots is massive overlay, such as at Bodog or a few other smaller sites.

A footnote: Stars and Full Tilt now give you lots of money for final tabling/winning the WSOP. I don't know Stars' endorsement deal terms so I won't add them up, but FT's deal gives a player with a real shot at winning an extra 1K+ (much more if you are above average) in EV just for qualifying from their site.

Satellite bubbles and the Nash equilibrium

Anybody that plays SNG's knows the ins and outs of pushbotting have a lot to do with game theory. If you push 100% of your hands in a given situation on the bubble, your opponent is right to call with, say, the top 25%, but being called that often is -EV for you in the long run, so you only push the top 50% (so he can only call with the top 10%, but that's -EV for him so he calls more to make you adjust...etc.) Eventually, the situation stabilizes - you push exactly the top 79%, he calls the top 14%, and you are both playing optimally. This is called a Nash equilibrium.

But there is no practically attainable Nash equilibrium in a big satellite bubble. Let's say there are 30 players left, the sat pays 25 seats, and stacks range from 8 BB to 50 BB. If the big stacks play optimally, they will sit out. If the medium stacks play optimally, too, they will go all in (into other medium stacks) virtually blind until they're big rather than medium. But even an 8 BB stack is dangerous when he pushes into someone with 15 BB, and if he pushes into a 50 BB stack, the value of time is the only reason to call the push; certainly, $EV wise, the correct play is probably still a fold with any 2. Technically, then, everybody should take turns pushing two cards - never being called except possibly with aces - until the blinds are so high that the extra fraction of a BB lost from calling an all in is meaningless.

In practice, this is unattainable, because I)people suck at poker and II)not every medium stack realizes that he should never do anything other than go all in in this situation. In the sat I was in, every hand was minraised, and 75% of the time, everyone would fold, except for the occasional medium stack restealing all in with any two (knowing it would almost never be called.) The minraise almost meant the same thing as an open push, even though it was essentially a chip giveaway to anybody that had a stack 2/3+ of the raiser's. It is a very odd situation that only comes up in such satellites, and the solution for it is for medium stacks to be much more aggro on the bubble than they are [assuming nobody else ever does anything totally suicidal to their EV like call...of course, you make that assumption at your own risk]. What currently goes on in sats like the one at Stars is as exploitable as anything else I've ever seen in poker.

The final hand of the sat went like this: a medium to large stack raised 4x to 12K in EP. Another medium to large, but somewhat smaller stack called the raise in MP. The SB, with ~22K total (he would have been about 20'th of 26) thought and pushed in with kings, EP instafolded, and MP thought forever and called with jacks (losing would have put him about 20th as well), then sucked out. Hilariously, every single decision made by all 3 players in the hand - in a 650 dollar buyin - was mildly to extremely wrong and, in at least one case, a $3000+ mistake. Think about that and then figure out how profitable these things are compared to a DSO, especially if you're the short stack watching this from the other table with ~10K chips.

Deep stack poker

Tournament structure has generally become far slower over the last year and change, while dead money still busts out at a relatively rapid clip. In general, the bigger the buyin, the better the structure, so big event sats tend to be very deep; on Stars, the mean number of chips 3-4 hours into this sat was over 50 BB, and as one of the chip leaders, I had over 100. This doesn't have much to do with anything except that you now have to know how to play with cash game stacks in order to beat sats; it's no longer optional. Furthermore, later on (before the true bubble but after bubble FE becomes a factor) it's pretty important to learn to resteal and bluff properly [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

If I had to qualify again, I would...

I'm definitely playing the 150 seat Stars sat for W$ as it's probably going to be in the top 10 most profitable tournaments this year. The Full Tilt 100 seat sat is gonna be up there, too, especially since pros that have already won seats at Party and Stars will not be playing in it. Party's 8 seat guaranteed nightly tournaments seem like a good value and can even have a little overlay (although Party pays 1K less for winning 2+ seats). The good old 73+7 sat to the Stars 650's is how I won my seat (although I bought in direct to the other 650 I played) and also gives practice on how to play a sat FT. Various turbo rebuys are great, too. Of course, if Bodog were an option, or some other site with overlays like that still is, toss this whole thing out the window and qualify from there.

I'll hopefully see you all at the ME.

Vuron00 06-26-2006 01:43 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
very nice.

Art Vandelay 06-26-2006 01:43 PM

Re: Updating satellite strategy post
 
Great update, thanks.

06-26-2006 01:54 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
adanthar -

Thanks for the update. I PMed you some questions, but I might as well ask here as well. Was the 650 that you won the one you were in last night, or were you playing that one for W$?

Additional probes about this post upcoming...

Lloyd 06-26-2006 01:56 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
If the medium stacks play optimally, too, they will go all in (into other medium stacks) virtually blind until they're big rather than medium.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you define as a medium stack? Under what conditions should a medium stack push? You've said virtually blind but that doesn't necessarily mean any two cards. But that's not necessarily any two cards. How does the pushing range change based on position?

[ QUOTE ]
it's pretty important to learn to resteal and bluff properly

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate on this as well. Maybe some examples.

Thanks for the post.

adanthar 06-26-2006 02:00 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
It was the one last night.

Medium stacks are...medium stacks. Like, "not desperate but not safe, can't really fold in yet" stacks. When a tournament is deeper stacked towards the end, this might mean #8-18 of 30.

Position and cards should theoretically not matter because nobody should ever call a push from any position - theoretically. Exceptions: when there's a small stack to your left, and when people don't play perfect poker. Yeah, that last one kinda sucks.

06-26-2006 02:06 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
I want to be certain I understand this entirely:

[ QUOTE ]
The final hand of the sat went like this: a medium to large stack raised 4x to 12K in EP. Another medium to large, but somewhat smaller stack called the raise in MP. The SB, with ~22K total (he would have been about 20'th of 26) thought and pushed in with kings, EP instafolded, and MP thought forever and called with jacks (losing would have put him about 20th as well), then sucked out. Hilariously, every single decision made by all 3 players in the hand - in a 650 dollar buyin - was mildly to extremely wrong and, in at least one case, a $3000+ mistake. Think about that and then figure out how profitable these things are compared to a DSO, especially if you're the short stack watching this from the other table with ~10K chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so here's my shot at IDing the mistakes:

1) EP should pretty much be folding anything here since he is a large stack. Obviously anything he isn't calling a reraise with should not have been raised in the first place.

2) MP should have insta-folded for the first raise, and then insta-folded for the second raise since he missed his chance the first time around. There is zero reason for him to be calling the first raise with JJ againt someone that can knock him out or cripple him. Even if he flops perfect and gets all his chips in, he can always A) be accidentally behind or B) get sucked out on and lose.

3) I assume that the SB should have simply folded the KK? When he goes all-in with KK, even if gets called with JJ of the same suit (pretty much the best case scenario), he still has roughly an 18% chance of being eliminated and not getting the prize package. Since he is dumb enough to call here, I have to assume that even if he wins and doubles up, he won't be guaranteed to win the seat, because he'd probably get frisky againt a larger stack when he was dealt AA next hand. There is no way that the chances of getting a seat by blindly folding EVERY SINGLE HAND HE IS DEALT until someone goes out is less than 82%.

I want to make sure I fully grasp this, as I need to jump on this satellite bandwagon soon.

LearnedfromTV 06-26-2006 02:12 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
Totally off topic, do you look anything like the guy in your avatar? It seems like you should.

Post bookmarked, obv.

Lloyd 06-26-2006 02:17 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
At what point would you start pushing? Obviously toward the bubble but I can see people tightening up when there are still several people to bust out.

adanthar 06-26-2006 02:28 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
When people know they can't call. This can mean "never", "occasionally", or "every single freaking hand from 100 left on down".

I have a (4 year old) pic in my profile don't I?

06-26-2006 02:32 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have a (4 year old) pic in my profile don't I?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4...tysmall1gn.jpg

rockin 06-26-2006 02:47 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
Identical

Rosie5 06-26-2006 02:56 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]

If I had to qualify again, I would...

I'm definitely playing the 150 seat Stars sat for W$ as it's probably going to be in the top 10 most profitable tournaments this year. The Full Tilt 100 seat sat is gonna be up there, too, especially since pros that have already won seats at Party and Stars will not be playing in it. Party's 8 seat guaranteed nightly tournaments seem like a good value and can even have a little overlay (although Party pays 1K less for winning 2+ seats). The good old 73+7 sat to the Stars 650's is how I won my seat (although I bought in direct to the other 650 I played) and also gives practice on how to play a sat FT. Various turbo rebuys are great, too. Of course, if Bodog were an option, or some other site with overlays like that still is, toss this whole thing out the window and qualify from there.


[/ QUOTE ]

I should probably off myself for mentioning this. But there is always a huge FPP overlay in the 1,000 FPP freerolls on stars. It usually sends someone to the WSOP for ~300k FPPs total (seen it as low as 260k) from the entire field whereas it would cost 600k+ to buyin directly.

just trying to help ppl get double value on those things [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] I don't think you're allowed to freeroll in after you win a seat in, making these extra soft [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Vee Quiva 06-26-2006 04:13 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
Deep stack poker

Tournament structure has generally become far slower over the last year and change, while dead money still busts out at a relatively rapid clip. In general, the bigger the buyin, the better the structure, so big event sats tend to be very deep; on Stars, the mean number of chips 3-4 hours into this sat was over 50 BB, and as one of the chip leaders, I had over 100. This doesn't have much to do with anything except that you now have to know how to play with cash game stacks in order to beat sats; it's no longer optional. Furthermore, later on (before the true bubble but after bubble FE becomes a factor) it's pretty important to learn to resteal and bluff properly


[/ QUOTE ]

Last night's $650 in Stars was the first one I have qualified for. I think there were 24 seats up for grabs.

Maybe it was just bad luck, but I was amazed how well everyone played at my table for the first 4 levels (until I busted out) I had Game Time running and no one had a VPIP over 22%. Some were as low as 13%. Since I was not getting any cards to play, I tried to survive on blind steals and resteals.

After I had indentified whose blinds I wanted to pick on, I was consistently beat to the punch by other players who had figured out the same thing. After folding my crappy hands in the big blind for an hour, one player was obviously picking on my blind. As I got ready to make the big resteal with any 2 cards, the button would reraise him out of the pot. Since I didn't have a good enough read to push all in and resteal his resteal, I had to fold. This happened 2 orbits in a row.

Hopefully the next time I qualify for the $650 I will sit at a better table and be dealt better cards.

I just wanted to let everyone know, that the early rounds of this tournament will take a lot more skill than the donkfest qualifiers to get into them.

adanthar 06-26-2006 04:23 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a (4 year old) pic in my profile don't I?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4...tysmall1gn.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

blurry 3 year old fiancee and I pic

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7...ture0023fc.jpg

06-26-2006 04:38 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
Is she Asian? If so, we have something in common. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

T_Mac 06-26-2006 04:44 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
Very nice post, here's a couple things I've messed up lately, help?

Three handed in a WSOP freeroll, top 2 get seats. I'm comfortable chip leader with ~300k while both others have between 100-150k. I was raising allin every single pot...but you're saying I should have been basically sitting out and making them play against each other? I ended up doubling one of them up when they found AA.

Then it got even worse, we were all roughly equal in chips, when the SB started going allin into my BB every single hand. Sounds like the right strategy according to what you posted. I guess I should have started doing the exact same thing to the other guy when I was SB? Instead I got blinded down. What hands can I call with when I know the guys basically going allin blind?

In another tourney there were roughly 13 ppl left in a 80$ sat, and 9 got 650$ seats. I was a little below average with 9k, I think avg was about 11-13k. I raised to 1800 or so with KK in EP, and a middlish stack who covered me in MP went allin. Is this a call or a fold?

adanthar 06-26-2006 04:54 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
#1 is tricky because you can't sit out unless the blinds are really big/they will even out with you eventually, so theoretically, you should raise/fold a lot if they don't realize they should be pushing tons. If they play perfectly you should shove decent hands and fold everything else.

Most of the rest is an SNGPT question and depends on the blinds, so buy/use that. I would call KK there though.

jgunnip 06-26-2006 05:08 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
Great post again on the topic. If I end up qualifying and we happen to meet up in vegas a drink or two on me! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jonathan 06-26-2006 08:08 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]


just trying to help ppl get double value on those things [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] I don't think you're allowed to freeroll in after you win a seat in, making these extra soft [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm quite certain that you can.

Suerte,
Jonathan

06-26-2006 08:54 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
I want to be certain I understand this entirely:

[ QUOTE ]
The final hand of the sat went like this: a medium to large stack raised 4x to 12K in EP. Another medium to large, but somewhat smaller stack called the raise in MP. The SB, with ~22K total (he would have been about 20'th of 26) thought and pushed in with kings, EP instafolded, and MP thought forever and called with jacks (losing would have put him about 20th as well), then sucked out. Hilariously, every single decision made by all 3 players in the hand - in a 650 dollar buyin - was mildly to extremely wrong and, in at least one case, a $3000+ mistake. Think about that and then figure out how profitable these things are compared to a DSO, especially if you're the short stack watching this from the other table with ~10K chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so here's my shot at IDing the mistakes:

1) EP should pretty much be folding anything here since he is a large stack. Obviously anything he isn't calling a reraise with should not have been raised in the first place.

2) MP should have insta-folded for the first raise, and then insta-folded for the second raise since he missed his chance the first time around. There is zero reason for him to be calling the first raise with JJ againt someone that can knock him out or cripple him. Even if he flops perfect and gets all his chips in, he can always A) be accidentally behind or B) get sucked out on and lose.

3) I assume that the SB should have simply folded the KK? When he goes all-in with KK, even if gets called with JJ of the same suit (pretty much the best case scenario), he still has roughly an 18% chance of being eliminated and not getting the prize package. Since he is dumb enough to call here, I have to assume that even if he wins and doubles up, he won't be guaranteed to win the seat, because he'd probably get frisky againt a larger stack when he was dealt AA next hand. There is no way that the chances of getting a seat by blindly folding EVERY SINGLE HAND HE IS DEALT until someone goes out is less than 82%.

I want to make sure I fully grasp this, as I need to jump on this satellite bandwagon soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

adanthar -

Were these right, by the way?

adanthar 06-26-2006 09:32 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
3 is more like 70% and down because he should by all rights be getting called twice, but yeah.

technologic 06-27-2006 03:58 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
wow, you are my new favorite poster.

i just finished busting out of my fifth first table in a stars dso. wish i read this sooner to save my 800 bucks.

nath 06-27-2006 04:40 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a (4 year old) pic in my profile don't I?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4...tysmall1gn.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

blurry 3 year old fiancee and I pic

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7...ture0023fc.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh, so that's what Clayton's going to look like in five years.

elena_elphie 07-07-2006 06:41 AM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
I know this is theoretically what people should do, but it is not what they actually do. In general if I push and someone calls, they have hurt both of us severely, so I'm pretty scared to push with medium stack unless I know the people I'm pushing on are likely to fold, and if no one is pushing it is difficult to learn how they respond to pushes.

So what are some practical tips for dealing with this in the real world, knowing that are opponents might call our pushes anyway.

Idahoholdem 07-07-2006 04:27 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
Dude, if you got that far, sound like you just need to practice your short game. And yes, you absolutely should have let them duke it out, unless you know you can get away with a steal once in a while. Otherwise, sit back and let them come to you.

uphigh_downlow 07-07-2006 08:22 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
well what you say is absolutely correct. The more pertinent question is about adjusting to the play at the table.

medium stacks and big stacks will call off huge chunks of their stacks. The call is -EV for both players in the hand. So it makes sense to sit out and gain equity. But with blinds and antes you are also leaking equity every orbit.

The question really is about where you make your last stand.

And of course the ggeneral discussion helps, but specifics will help.

I think th e question really is on a similar line to Sklansky's post about folding KK heads up in the Poker Theory forum

biglynes 11-17-2006 04:29 AM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
Bump. And thanks. Made the cut by folding everything.

11-17-2006 09:41 AM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
wow, you are my new favorite poster.

i just finished busting out of my fifth first table in a stars dso. wish i read this sooner to save my 800 bucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet you miss those 800 bucks. lol

michaelantoi 03-22-2007 06:14 PM

Adanthar - your opinion?
 
Adanthar and all others who advocate the larger edge Party Steps have in terms of building a bankroll can I get you're opinion on this (from STT section).

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question that was asked in the first one, but not answered:
What is 5-step? I've heard people referring to it as if it were some level of buyin, but I can't figure out what it is

You must be refering to the step systems. I don't know what sites offer them, or what the official name for them are. But, at party it is the Steps.

There are 5 steps. You start at Step 1. If you win Step 1, you move to Step 2. And it continues like that until you reach Step 5 where there are cash payouts.

At each level, if you do not win or come in the top couple spots, you usually get a freeroll into that same step or a step or two down.

Generally people see them as a rake trap. At each step, you are paying a certain amount back to the site. It's very difficult to win enough sngs to get to the top step, so you're paying a lot of rake along the way to what is usually just busting completely.

People are attracted to them because the payouts are huge compared to the buy-ins for the first couple steps. But, people should remember that there is no easy way to make these big scores. It's no different than playing a 6.50$ and winning and buyin into a $27. Then winning the $27 and buying into a $114. You can imagine, it's pretty easy to lose your initial buy-in, because you are most likely going to lose at some point. - devin




[/ QUOTE ]

ZJ123 06-17-2007 02:21 AM

Re: Adanthar - your opinion?
 
bump

good stuff

gl everyone tomorrow

plz win the FTP or star one! k thx bye.

CandaceT1984 06-17-2007 02:31 AM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
Solid gold sir. Thanks

jgunnip 06-17-2007 03:22 AM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
Anybody have experience with the wsop $27 rebuy sats? there are running a bunch of turbos tomorrow for the wsop 150. It is worth it to rebuy right a way in these, since you get a #370 ticket? I'm thining it might better to not rebuy initially, play realitvely tight, push your good hands and hope to get a 3-4x starting stack as cheap as possible and then addon when you can.

I also wondering what point in rebuy satalites is it not worth it to rebuy at the beginning. Like it seems obvious you should rebuy in 3r to the sunday million or 11rebuys. Where for the 39r to the sunday million rebuying right away might not be the most profitable move in terms of ROI. So I wonder at what fraction of the seat value does the inital buyin cost need to be where its probably best not to rebuy at the beginning. I have a hunch it is somewhere between 1/20th and 1/10th, probably closer to 1/10th. (ie for $8 rebuy to the $88 last chance, the buyin cost is 1/11th of the seat prize)

GotQuads 06-17-2007 11:34 AM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
You're saying that people make $3000+ mistakes Adanthar, and that's true. However what you're not mentioning is that you have to get to that bubble first, and it's very unlikely you do get there even when playing perfectly. So I tend to disagree that such satellites are more profitable then anything else when those $3000 mistakes occur at a point where you're usually on the rail. Also the number of $3000 mistakes is going to be relatively low, and it's debatable whether those mistakes combined outweigh earlier mistakes by the players.

jgunnip 06-17-2007 11:49 AM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
You're saying that people make $3000+ mistakes Adanthar, and that's true. However what you're not mentioning is that you have to get to that bubble first, and it's very unlikely you do get there even when playing perfectly. So I tend to disagree that such satellites are more profitable then anything else when those $3000 mistakes occur at a point where you're usually on the rail. Also the number of $3000 mistakes is going to be relatively low, and it's debatable whether those mistakes combined outweigh earlier mistakes by the players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you are trying to point out here. What satalites do you think are more profitable? Clearly 3K mistakes will not be plentiful b/c you generally have to be close to the bubble for such mistakes to occur. If you're br allows and you have a clue, sats like the $650 and $1050 to the wsop me are very very good from both an ROI and hourly rate standpoint since a lot of the players qualified to them through satalites.

GotQuads 06-17-2007 12:00 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're saying that people make $3000+ mistakes Adanthar, and that's true. However what you're not mentioning is that you have to get to that bubble first, and it's very unlikely you do get there even when playing perfectly. So I tend to disagree that such satellites are more profitable then anything else when those $3000 mistakes occur at a point where you're usually on the rail. Also the number of $3000 mistakes is going to be relatively low, and it's debatable whether those mistakes combined outweigh earlier mistakes by the players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you are trying to point out here. What satalites do you think are more profitable? Clearly 3K mistakes will not be plentiful b/c you generally have to be close to the bubble for such mistakes to occur. If you're br allows and you have a clue, sats like the $650 and $1050 to the wsop me are very very good from both an ROI and hourly rate standpoint since a lot of the players qualified to them through satalites.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm pointing out is, why is the WSOP satellite juicier than say a 3 dollar rebuy? He said it's the most profitable tournament of the year, and I would disagree with that.

APipeDream 06-17-2007 12:01 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
Nice post. 1 question: which Stars WSOP-150 rebuy would you prefer? The $3+, $8+, $11+, or $27+? They each win a $370 seat.

jgunnip 06-17-2007 12:12 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're saying that people make $3000+ mistakes Adanthar, and that's true. However what you're not mentioning is that you have to get to that bubble first, and it's very unlikely you do get there even when playing perfectly. So I tend to disagree that such satellites are more profitable then anything else when those $3000 mistakes occur at a point where you're usually on the rail. Also the number of $3000 mistakes is going to be relatively low, and it's debatable whether those mistakes combined outweigh earlier mistakes by the players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you are trying to point out here. What satalites do you think are more profitable? Clearly 3K mistakes will not be plentiful b/c you generally have to be close to the bubble for such mistakes to occur. If you're br allows and you have a clue, sats like the $650 and $1050 to the wsop me are very very good from both an ROI and hourly rate standpoint since a lot of the players qualified to them through satalites.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm pointing out is, why is the WSOP satellite juicier than say a 3 dollar rebuy? He said it's the most profitable tournament of the year, and I would disagree with that.


[/ QUOTE ]

I believe he said its probably one of the ten juicest touranments of the year. also a $370 for 11k is >>>> profitable than some 3r to a 215 seat. ducy? also you should note the OP was written a year ago.

jgunnip 06-17-2007 12:15 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
Nice post. 1 question: which Stars WSOP-150 rebuy would you prefer? The $3+, $8+, $11+, or $27+? They each win a $370 seat.

[/ QUOTE ]

the $27 and $11 rebuys are very good. The 8.8 was to the $88 last chance sat. Haven't played any $3rebuys since those don't give out very many seats.

GotQuads 06-17-2007 03:19 PM

Re: Updated satellite strategy post
 
[ QUOTE ]
I believe he said its probably one of the ten juicest touranments of the year. also a $370 for 11k is >>>> profitable than some 3r to a 215 seat. ducy? also you should note the OP was written a year ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh do you play anything else than satellites? I wasn't talking about rebuys into satellites. I was talking about tournaments in general. Why should a WSOP sat be juicier than a cheap rebuy or even the Sunday million which has a ton of weak players coming from sats as well.


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