Where Am I here??
 

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Full Tilt Poker Game #715614485: $50 + $5 Tournament (6 max) (4602236), Table 4 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:37:14 ET - 2006/06/15

Seat 1: composer24 (4,350)
Seat 2: weskey (6,035)
Seat 3: TheDarkElf (1,430)
Seat 4: cscwildcat1 (1,240)
Seat 5: Zuludogg (1,300)
Seat 6: LLKOOLK1 (1,750)
Zuludogg posts the small blind of 30
LLKOOLK1 posts the big blind of 60

The button is in seat #4

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to LLKOOLK1 [Qs Kh]
composer24 folds
weskey raises to 210
TheDarkElf folds
cscwildcat1 folds
Zuludogg folds
LLKOOLK1 calls 150

*** FLOP *** [Kc Tc 6h]

LLKOOLK1 checks
weskey checks

*** TURN *** [Kc Tc 6h] [Qh]
LLKOOLK1 bets 250
weskey raises to 5,825, and is all in

I planned on CR the flop (villan had CB most of his pf raises)But he checks behind me. I dont have any real reads on Villan, since he moved in 3 or 4 orbits ago...
Where do you think I am here, what hands does he push this turn with? What am I ahead of? Whats beating me? Any thoughts on CR the flop/leading out into raiser?
-LL

Re: Where Am I here??
 

I think you have 2 pr and if you are beat you have 4 redraws. (2 if he has QQ). I instacall because what hands would he push that beat us? AJ MIGHT only because there are 2 flushes out there, but the huge overbet seems ridonkulous. My guess is some kind of weak hand + draws (TJh / QJc). Anyone see this move made w/ better hands than draws / lower 2 pr?

Re: Where Am I here??
 

I would fold this PF, unless I had a read that the villian was extremely loose. After calling, I would bet the flop (not check raise). I would call the allin. I think you are ahead of a draw or 1 pair and a draw. It is possible that someone would push with a straight or set, because they are scared of the flush draw, but that case is less likely.

Re: Where Am I here??
 

You are slightly behind a hand lik Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and way ahead of most others.

I really doubt he pushes AJ there, but may due to 2 frush draws.

I usually call quickly.

I also usually re-raise this PF in 6 max against a LAG, is he a LAG? (I've been playing 1/2 6max)

He has a lot of chips, how did he get em?

If he has a lot early, its usually due to good lag/bad lag playing so you are well ahead of his range as he knows you need a good hand to call a push. But you have a good hand, so call.

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: Where Am I here??
 

Oh man, with your stack size I definitely call. I think at worst you're splitting, unless he got lucky enough to catch with his AJ.

Re: Where Am I here??
 

It is likely that he is a wild player who is on the wild side when it comes to pushing draws, but you cannot discount the fact that he might be a decent player who has dramatically increased his stack by overplaying his monster hands and having folks calling him.

Let's say you are a 2 - 1 favorite against the draws and he is a 19 - 1 favorite if he has the hand he represents (a set). You see the problem emerging: you must be really-really sure that he is a clown who is overplaying his hands.

At the $50 + $5 level, there are plenty of bad players, but I would still fold in a heartbeat, if only for not experiencing the aggravation of making an apparent beginner mistake.

Re: Where Am I here??
 

What confuses me is what hand is he checking behind on this flop with, but pushing the turn with?
-LL

Re: Where Am I here??
 

[ QUOTE ]

At the $50 + $5 level, there are plenty of bad players, but I would still fold in a heartbeat, if only for not experiencing the aggravation of making an apparent beginner mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm I dunno bout that....and I dont think this is a clear fold at all
-LL

Re: Where Am I here??
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold this PF, unless I had a read that the villian was extremely loose. After calling, I would bet the flop (not check raise). I would call the allin. I think you are ahead of a draw or 1 pair and a draw. It is possible that someone would push with a straight or set, because they are scared of the flush draw, but that case is less likely.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a 6max table, and we are light a player, so 5 players. Blinds 30/60...I dont mind calling here.
-LL

Re: Where Am I here??
 

[ QUOTE ]
What confuses me is what hand is he checking behind on this flop with, but pushing the turn with?

[/ QUOTE ]

Club draw with Q clubs?

Good point, makes me not like the instacall as much, but I still usually call here, especiallly with the all in, but after looking at it again you only have a psb left in your stack.

Hmmm, that makes it closer, but I'm dumb and still call.

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: Where Am I here??
 

[ QUOTE ]
What confuses me is what hand is he checking behind on this flop with, but pushing the turn with?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmmmmmmmm.......
I've got this dreaded in my belly feeling of the set of tens. The turn card added to his flush and straight fear, so he got his chips out there. If you'd already caught, then his damage is not life-threatening, and if you hadn't he's ending it here. Tough fold...

Re: Where Am I here??
 

Sorry... I had missed the turn card. The odds I gave are on the flop.

The Qh may have changed something, and there are even more draws now (with only one card to come though). It increases the odds that a bad player is overplaying a draw or a weaker made hand (QT for example). It now requires calculation in my opinion.

Re: Where Am I here??
 

his raise is not really an overbet, there is 700 in the pot after heros bet and hero only has 1350 left so it's only a bit more than a pot raise. The read is he cbets most flops which always makes me suspicious when the player suddenly checks. looks sort of like a set, maybe AJ. QJ seemms unlikely since he probably bets the flop with an open ender. It's also possible he slowplayed AA, AK, KT etc or or picked up a draw on the turn. You are getting about 1,7:1 plus you have a few outs if you are beat, I think you need to have the best hand about 1/3 of the time to make the call. I probably call but I'm not happy about it.

I also think you should bet more on the turn, 1/2 pot on that board just doesn't look right to me, I probably pot it. checking the flop with the intention of raising is definetly the right idea with you read and preflop call fine as well.

Re: Where Am I here??
 

[ QUOTE ]

I also think you should bet more on the turn, 1/2 pot on that board just doesn't look right to me, I probably pot it. checking the flop with the intention of raising is definetly the right idea with you read and preflop call fine as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone else think that this bet size on the turn is too small? Now that you bring this up, I guess theres something to be said about a 1/2 pot bet possibly provocking a bluff here. I guess a 3/4 pot will block a higher % of bluffs, but will also commit me to the hand (which at the time wasnt a bad thing, it wasnt until he pushed the turn that I said, Uhoh...wait a minute)
I guess, based on this thought process, Im better off with the 1/2 pot bet. If I decide that I am calling if he pushes, then why not provoke a bluff that I might not be able to if I bet 3/4-pot.
-LL