$16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t200 with t25 antes (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

CO (t7988)
Button (t1252)
SB (t2385)
Hero (t1875)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to t2360 (All-in)</font>, Hero calls t1650 (All-in)

Hero is a 2+2er I was playing against a little while ago. He's been here a lot longer than me, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, but this call seems wack to me. According to SNGPT, it's unprofitable if SB is pushing 98% or less. Am I missing something?

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

Perhaps he thought he had some read on you. Perhaps he was tilting or bored. Perhaps he unknowingly made a bad call. Who knows.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

As you know, villain was me. I figured there would be a post about this later. Was multitabling and thought I was the short stack, blinds were due to go up shortly, and you had pushed on my BB the last 5+ orbits. In fact blinds went up to 200/400 the next hand.

I figured you were pushing ~100% here, and while that may have been a touch loose you did in this hand have 68s which represents ~65% of hands.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

I agree that a knowledgeable SB is pushing any two. I don't think that this is a horrible call at all - especially if you two play a bit together.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

Without referring to SnGPT, this call looks terrible to me.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

What surprised me is that I hadn't been pushing on you that much. If you go back and check you'll see that I actually folded a couple of small blinds to you (which was a mistake; one of my leaks is that I don't pull the trigger every time I should). And even if I were pushing 32o, this would still only be slightly better than break-even. But I guess if you thought you were the small stack it's a different story. Grr. I was counting on you to play better! That'll teach me.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

BB made a mistake? It is possible to make mistakes, I make several a day and it costs me dearly.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps he thought he had some read on you. Perhaps he was tilting or bored. Perhaps he unknowingly made a bad call. Who knows.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually one of the better posts I've read on this board about stuff like this.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t200 with t25 antes (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

CO (t7988)
Button (t1252)
SB (t2385)
Hero (t1875)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to t2360 (All-in)</font>, Hero calls t1650 (All-in)

Hero is a 2+2er I was playing against a little while ago. He's been here a lot longer than me, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, but this call seems wack to me. According to SNGPT, it's unprofitable if SB is pushing 98% or less. Am I missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind, if BB was not a 2+2er, you'd get called about 99% of the time here. Especially if you've been pushing alot. It's a $16 sng for God's sake. Do you really think that there are very many players at that level who will fold here? Take that into account when pushing random crap from the SB.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

45S, my brotha. You been out of the loop too long me thinks. Granted Hero has only 7BBs left after posting, but most Heroes don't even think about it in terms of BBs, they look at their cards, look around the table, see that they are one player from ITM and fold more than they should.

Their range isn't all THAT loose.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

[ QUOTE ]
45S, my brotha. You been out of the loop too long me thinks. Granted Hero has only 7BBs left after posting, but most Heroes don't even think about it in terms of BBs, they look at their cards, look around the table, see that they have a pair and call

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

I know that the call is incorrect, but you guys are nuts if you think that the typical $16 SNGer is folding 55 in the BB here. Okay, so BB called, he shouldn't have. I'm SHOCKED that a player at this level made the wrong play. Stop the presses!!! [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

seems pretty bad ESPESCIALLY since blind are going up to 200-400, and will hit the short stack.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
45S, my brotha. You been out of the loop too long me thinks. Granted Hero has only 7BBs left after posting, but most Heroes don't even think about it in terms of BBs, they look at their cards, look around the table, see that they have a pair and call

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

I know that the call is incorrect, but you guys are nuts if you think that the typical $16 SNGer is folding 55 in the BB here. Okay, so BB called, he shouldn't have. I'm SHOCKED that a player at this level made the wrong play. Stop the presses!!! [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I read your post to mean he would call with way more than 55. Like super loose.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
45S, my brotha. You been out of the loop too long me thinks. Granted Hero has only 7BBs left after posting, but most Heroes don't even think about it in terms of BBs, they look at their cards, look around the table, see that they have a pair and call

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

I know that the call is incorrect, but you guys are nuts if you think that the typical $16 SNGer is folding 55 in the BB here. Okay, so BB called, he shouldn't have. I'm SHOCKED that a player at this level made the wrong play. Stop the presses!!! [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone would think the average $16er would fold 55 here..we think that the average 2+2 $16ers would however, and OP did know who BB was...

if it were me, I would assume blackize would fold this as well

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

What I'm saying is, obviously the call was bad.

But you see worse all the time at the $16 level. This call shouldn't shock anybody so I don't see what the big deal is. I'd actually be more surprised if the typical player at $16 was good enough to lay this down.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

If it were an average $16 player, I wouldn't be surprised at all by the call. But blackize is a 2+2er, and not just some jerk like me who started posting last month, either. I would have had to push one way or another, but I was expecting him to know that him making this call is -EV for both of us. Now, I completely understand the reasons that he gave for making the call, but at the time I was a little shocked, which lead to the OP.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

[ QUOTE ]
This call shouldn't shock anybody so I don't see what the big deal is.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes... it should shock us if we know that that BB is blackize (well shock isn't the word, but it being unexpected is certainly valid)

I'm not saying that evert 2+2er is amazing or even good enough to fold here, but I would certainly give them credit (or at least adjust my calling range accordingly..even to include the possibility that he makes this mistake...and even then it's certainly a good push)

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

Heh it's +EV if you're pushing any two which I thought you were.

But I definitely need to make sure I double check the stack sizes at the table from now on in situations like these since I could have found a higher EV move in the next few hands. This was also the tail end of a session where I saw KK 4 times, 3 times against AA, JJ twice both times against a bigger pair, oh and a nice little AK v A3 loss so I was probably tilting a touch as well.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

Its such tiny +EV against an any 2 push its a joke. Its definitely not as bad a call as people are making it out to be though. Still I would fold. But its really not worth serious criticism IMO.

I mean villain is obv pushing any 2, SNGPT says its very very tiny +EV, so how can this be such a bad call that makes it worth posting? If villain ISNT pushing any 2, then they are making a worse mistake than the BB IMO.

Re: $16: I don\'t quite understand this call
 

Couldn't have said it better.