Does God exist?
 

A simple yes or no question. Please answer "yes" or "no", and then explain your answer.

Thanks.

Re: Does God exist?
 

Isn't this the sum of every thread in this forum?

Re: Does God exist?
 

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Isn't this the sum of every thread in this forum?

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I wouldn't know. I don't really follow it.

Re: Does God exist?
 

No.

1. The universe is perfectly explicable without god(s).

2. There are hundreds of religions who all espouse truth yet contradict each other on every possible aspect of god(s) and the afterlife. Yet, millions or billions believe in each. It's easy to see how the concept of God was invented.

3. There is absolutely zero evidence of the existence of any god(s).

4. The concept of god is absurd when one contemplates the enormity of time and the universe.

Re: Does God exist?
 

None of those should lead you to conclude that God does not exist, except perhaps 4. But I don't understand 4 anyway. It doesn't seem absurd to me.

Re: Does God exist?
 

I Don't Know

There is no proof he exists

There is no proof he doesn't exist

Re: Does God exist?
 

No. There is absolutely no rational reason for me to believe he exists and so I don't, for the same reason I don't belive that my computer is actually a leopard.

Re: Does God exist?
 

It's impossible to know whether God exists or even to determine a probability thereof.

Re: Does God exist?
 

Yeah.

I have discovered a marvelous proof of this, which the forum is too small to contain.

Re: Does God exist?
 

Obviously this question can only be settled with a poll. WTF is wrong with you people?

Re: Does God exist?
 

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It's impossible to know whether God exists or even to determine a probability thereof.

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Re: Does God exist?
 

I'm afraid to say no because God might strike me down...

Re: Does God exist?
 

<font color="blue"> Please answer "yes" or "no", </font>

No.

<font color="blue"> and then explain your answer. </font>

No explanation is necessary. Not a single human being who has ever walked the earth has seen God. A lot of explanation is necessary if you want to claim God does exist.

Re: Does God exist?
 

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It's impossible to know whether God exists or even to determine a probability thereof.

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In the same way it is impossible to know if a falling tree makes a sound if no one is around to hear it?

Re: Does God exist?
 

All the beings in the milky way decided to figure out the answer to this question once and for all. They linked up their computer systems, gathering computational power from over one hundred thousand civilizations, and millions of different planets. They asked their computer one question :

Is there a God.

With lightning quickness it answered.

There is now.

Re: Does God exist?
 

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It's impossible to know whether God exists or even to determine a probability thereof.

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Oh, I think it would be within God's capacities to make his existence known. He's just a bit of a practical joker with a cruel streak. Like a school bully who wants to be worshipped (why?).

Re: Does God exist?
 

yes,

Everything that has beginning has a cause..
The universe had a beginning. 1 reason.

Eh?
 

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A simple yes or no question. Please answer "yes" or "no", and then explain your answer.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does *what* exist? You are assuming that religion is part of knowledge; that there is a theory of god; that there is a definition which makes it relate to other knowledge and can be disproven theoretically or proven empirically.

This assumption is false.

"Scientific ideas, like all memes, are subject to a kind of natural selection, and this might look superficially virus-like. But the selective forces that scrutinize scientific ideas are not arbitrary and capricious. They are exacting, well-honed rules, and they do not favor pointless self-serving behavior. They favor all the virtues laid out in textbooks of standard methodology: testability, evidential support, precision, quantifiability, consistency, intersubjectivity, repeatability, universality, progressiveness, independence of cultural milieu, and so on. Faith spreads despite a total lack of every single one of these virtues."
http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/Worl...sesofmind.shtml

Re: Does God exist?
 

NO.

If he did, the only humane, not poker player, response would be to stand up against the tyrant.

For those who think we will never know for sure, it is a totally trivial question since we will only know the answer too late, and till then, there are too many flavours available as choice.

Re: Does God exist?
 

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NO.

If he did, the only humane, not poker player, response would be to stand up against the tyrant.


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Hell yes.

God : I'm going to pretend I don't exist and if you don't figure out that I do exist despite the fact that I created the universe in a manner so that any rational person finds belief in me impossible I am going to torture you for infinity.

Me : Go to hell [censored].

Re: Does God exist?
 

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NO.

If he did, the only humane, not poker player, response would be to stand up against the tyrant.


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Hell yes.

God : I'm going to pretend I don't exist and if you don't figure out that I do exist despite the fact that I created the universe in a manner so that any rational person finds belief in me impossible I am going to torture you for infinity.

Me : Go to hell [censored].

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well said

Re: Does God exist?
 

Yes. I cant explain the world as I find it without assuming God exists.

Re: Does God exist?
 

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Yes. I cant explain the world as I find it without assuming God exists.

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I can't explain it whether or not I assume god exists.

chez

Re: Does God exist?
 

Well I can get closer anyhow. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Does God exist?
 

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yes,

Everything that has beginning has a cause..
The universe had a beginning. 1 reason.

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Then what created God? This is incredibly lazy thinking. You're basically saying:

"Well, the universe must have begun at some point. Therefore something must have caused it. So I'm going to say a magic fairy waved her wand to make the universe. Nothing needs to have caused the fairy because the fairy is magic and magic doesn't need a cause."

Re: Does God exist?
 

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A simple yes or no question. Please answer "yes" or "no", and then explain your answer.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does a Zrongoolapser exist?

Please answer only "yes" or "no," then explain your answer.

Re: Does God exist?
 

Yes.

It's impossible to use reason to determine whether or not God exists. Either you believe it or you don't. It's stupid to try to logically explain that He exists, because there is always some counter-argument that will refute whatever you have to say.

Re: Does God exist?
 

I don't think that the burden of proof is on the atheist. But I also don't think that failing to come up with evidence for God is a reason to deny his existence, as many on this forum (in the past, importantly, DS) seem to think. And I certainly don't think you can produce a rational argument to conclude that he doesn't exist on this consideration. The inductive argument is as weak as it could possibly be; the sample size is 0.

Re: Does God exist?
 

The thing that irks me about layman's philosophy of religion is that it is essentially intellectual dishonesty. The cosmological argument was refuted centuries ago. Similar arguments (ontological, teleogolical, etc.) have all been refuted. When a scientific concept is refuted, the community is immediately willing to jettison it. You don't see physicists clinging to Newtonian mechanics. So why do religious advocates continue to espouse philosophical absurdities?

I don't have a problem with the branch of philosophy known as philosophy of religion. I do have a problem with intellectual dishonesty.

Re: Does God exist?
 

<font color="blue">And I certainly don't think you can produce a rational argument to conclude that he doesn't exist on this consideration. </font>

But that's just it... You don't NEED a rational argument to claim the non-existence of something for which there is no evidence for to begin with.

<font color="blue"> The inductive argument is as weak as it could possibly be; the sample size is 0. </font>

Depends on how you look at it. How many people who have ever lived on earth have never seen God? How many days have gone by since God has made Himself known? How many times have bad things happened to good people or good things happen to bad people? This becomes a pretty big sample size dude.

Re: Does God exist?
 

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But that's just it... You don't NEED a rational argument to claim the non-existence of something for which there is no evidence for to begin with.

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You do if you want to make a metaphysical claim ("God does not exist."). For a methodological epistemic claim, you could use Ockham's razor or something to that effect.

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Depends on how you look at it. How many people who have ever lived on earth have never seen God? How many days have gone by since God has made Himself known? How many times have bad things happened to good people or good things happen to bad people? This becomes a pretty big sample size dude.

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Only if you introduce premises like "if there were a God, he would make himself known" or "if there were a God, he would prevent bad things from happening to good people." At that point it seems to me that you could formulate a deductive argument rather than an inductive one. Those premises are much more difficult to justify than ones like "we have no evidence of God".

Re: Does God exist?
 

<font color="blue"> You do if you want to make a metaphysical claim ("God does not exist."). For a methodological epistemic claim, you could use Ockham's razor or something to that effect. </font>

What if I want to make the claim that a falling tree in the middle of a forest makes a sound even when no one is around to hear it? Do I need a rational argument for that claim? And if so, what do you propose it to be?

The fact is, every single instance ever observed of falling trees indicate they make noise, but no one can prove this is so when no one is around to hear it. So am I supposed to go out of my way to make rational claims to show they do in fact make noise whenever they fall? Hardly...



<font color="blue">Only if you introduce premises like "if there were a God, he would make himself known" or "if there were a God, he would prevent bad things from happening to good people." </font>

No, no, no... I don't need to introduce a premise. Non-existence IS the premise! You (or they), need the deductive argument if you want to claim that a God, or a pixie, or an angel, exist.

This is why I've cut down with these debates and have greatly changed my attitude. I'm done trying to provide rationale for belief in the non-existence of something for which there is no proof of existence in the first place. I'll let you (or them), come up with rationale FOR existence before I waste any more of my time. So far, I haven't heard anything of substance yet.

Re: Does God exist?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A simple yes or no question. Please answer "yes" or "no", and then explain your answer.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and when you die you will get his bill for the ammount of BTU's of the sun energy you consumed during your lifetime.

Re: Does God exist?
 

"If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever. " - Woody

Re: Does God exist?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What if I want to make the claim that a falling tree in the middle of a forest makes a sound even when no one is around to hear it? Do I need a rational argument for that claim? And if so, what do you propose it to be?

The fact is, every single instance ever observed of falling trees indicate they make noise, but no one can prove this is so when no one is around to hear it. So am I supposed to go out of my way to make rational claims to show they do in fact make noise whenever they fall? Hardly...

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I don't think this example is nearly as obvious as you seem to. Some modern interpretations of physics would claim that a tree falling in a forest doesn't make a sound. The inductive argument there is also extremely weak because you have the premise that people are around to hear it.

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No, no, no... I don't need to introduce a premise. Non-existence IS the premise! You (or they), need the deductive argument if you want to claim that a God, or a pixie, or an angel, exist.

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I'm not disputing where the burden of proof lies, but you wouldn't think that a failed proof is the same as a negative disproof in mathematics, would you? Why should it be any different in metaphysics?

Re: Does God exist?
 

<font color="blue">I don't think this example is nearly as obvious as you seem to. Some modern interpretations of physics would claim that a tree falling in a forest doesn't make a sound. The inductive argument there is also extremely weak because you have the premise that people are around to hear it. </font>

Could you explain this further? I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying you can cite an interpretation of physics that claims noise doesn't exist unless someone is around to hear it?


<font color="blue">I'm not disputing where the burden of proof lies, </font>

Right.. And I don't know I'm even talking about proof per se. I'm talking about the need to discuss it in the first place. Why do we need to discuss proof of whether or not Martian beings are taking over the bodies of people in your community? So if you ask me if your next door neighbor is in fact a Martian, I'm gonna say no. Even though there's some chance he is and I can't prove otherwise.

Re: Does God exist?
 

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Could you explain this further? I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying you can cite an interpretation of physics that claims noise doesn't exist unless someone is around to hear it?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscio...auses_collapse

I don't necessarily agree with this interpretation, but I don't think you can conclusively say that a tree falling in a forest makes a sound. The inductive argument is extremely weak, and deduction simply will not work, so that leaves abduction, if you believe there is such a thing. I have no idea how such an argument would go.

I think there may be a deductive argument against the existence of God, however. I just don't think it can be based in the absence of evidence.

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Right.. And I don't know I'm even talking about proof per se. I'm talking about the need to discuss it in the first place. Why do we need to discuss proof of whether or not Martian beings are taking over the bodies of people in your community? So if you ask me if your next door neighbor is in fact a Martian, I'm gonna say no. Even though there's some chance he is and I can't prove otherwise.

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True enough, but our discourse would come to a halt rather quickly in this case and I think it would be rather uninteresting. God has certain properties that make his existence an interesting philosophical study. Even though I don't agree with Augustine, Aquinas, et. al., I find their arguments well-thought and interesting. I doubt that one could produce a similar dialectic regarding Martian as body snatchers.

Re: Does God exist?
 

[ QUOTE ]
All the beings in the milky way decided to figure out the answer to this question once and for all. They linked up their computer systems, gathering computational power from over one hundred thousand civilizations, and millions of different planets. They asked their computer one question :

Is there a God...

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I had this same idea for years now. Thought maybe it would make a good movie.

Re: Does God exist?
 

LOL!!! You get an A for creativity on that one. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Apparently not
 

Man who was 'testing God' killed by lion

June 6, 2006

A lion killed a man who climbed into its enclosure in the Ukrainian capital's zoo, police said today.

The lion attacked the 45-year-old Ukrainian late yesterday after he used a rope to climb down into an enclosure with four lions, said Kiev police spokesman Volodymyr Polishchuk.

He said the man, who was not identified, was acting aggressively and the lion seized him by the throat. The man, an ethnic Azerbaijani, died at the scene.

Ukrainian TV channel NTN broadcast interviews with witnesses who said the man told them that he wanted to test God, believing that God would not allow the lions to hurt him.

Zoo officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060500394.html