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-   -   $60 I hate spots like this. (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=128418)

lastas 06-02-2006 07:47 AM

$60 I hate spots like this.
 
Dont really have any massive FE against people who limp with high stacks like this. Though this is statistically the best hand I get before the blinds hit me, and chances are pretty good I'm gonna get called pulling of a semi-desperate push before they do.

Oh, and theres pretty much 0% this is a trap limp from villain.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1335)
UTG+1 (t3400)
MP1 (t1718)
Hero (t1095)
CO (t1385)
Button (t1415)
SB (t802)
BB (t2350)

Preflop: Hero is in MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, UTG+1 calls t200, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero ...</font>

Imrahil 06-02-2006 07:48 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
Easy push IMO.

alwardc4 06-02-2006 08:09 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
looks like a good push

Indiana 06-02-2006 08:35 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Dont really have any massive FE against people who limp with high stacks like this. Though this is statistically the best hand I get before the blinds hit me, and chances are pretty good I'm gonna get called pulling of a semi-desperate push before they do.

Oh, and theres pretty much 0% this is a trap limp from villain.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1335)
UTG+1 (t3400)
MP1 (t1718)
Hero (t1095)
CO (t1385)
Button (t1415)
SB (t802)
BB (t2350)

Preflop: Hero is in MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, UTG+1 calls t200, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero ...</font>

[/ QUOTE ]
I must be an idiot because this does not look "easy" to me. I probably push myself but I don't like being in this spot.

Indy

alwardc4 06-02-2006 08:41 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]

I must be an idiot because this does not look "easy" to me. I probably push myself but I don't like being in this spot.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly don't think its easy either, just correct. It is annoying how "easy" some decisions are in this forum. If they were that easy then more people would find the accurate one.

lastas 06-02-2006 08:59 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I must be an idiot because this does not look "easy" to me. I probably push myself but I don't like being in this spot.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly don't think its easy either, just correct. It is annoying how "easy" some decisions are in this forum. If they were that easy then more people would find the accurate one.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I certainly could buy this to be a push, I think this is a more complex situation than you make it out to be.

I dont like one-line answers without a motivation :-/.

Indiana 06-02-2006 09:05 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I must be an idiot because this does not look "easy" to me. I probably push myself but I don't like being in this spot.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly don't think its easy either, just correct. It is annoying how "easy" some decisions are in this forum. If they were that easy then more people would find the accurate one.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I certainly could buy this to be a push, I think this is a more complex situation than you make it out to be.

I dont like one-line answers without a motivation :-/.

[/ QUOTE ]

This problem has an decent mathematical solution by the way. You can't use SNGPT because it cannot handle limpers, but I'd do the following just to get a "feel" for the numbers. Put the limper on a tight range around KQ. Then calculate the probability of running into a better Ace or a PP behind you. Then weight the EVs through these probabilities. This could take me 30 minutes. I don't have time today but one of the smarter posters in this forum could do it (including u).

Indy

durron597 06-02-2006 09:08 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and theres pretty much 0% this is a trap limp from villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love spots like this, shove shove shove shove

lastas 06-02-2006 09:20 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and theres pretty much 0% this is a trap limp from villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love spots like this, shove shove shove shove

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be loving it alot more if i had A9s or t1300.

Still shoving if its A2s?

faquewdikhed 06-02-2006 09:56 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
I was in the exact same spot yesterday, but with A9, and about 1700 chips. Villain limped for about the 4th or 5th time, blinds were 100/200, and they were going up in 2 minutes. I assume that pushing in my spot would also be correct? I probably would have folded if I could have seen another round in the blinds. (sorry for the hijack)

alwardc4 06-02-2006 10:02 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I must be an idiot because this does not look "easy" to me. I probably push myself but I don't like being in this spot.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly don't think its easy either, just correct. It is annoying how "easy" some decisions are in this forum. If they were that easy then more people would find the accurate one.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I certainly could buy this to be a push, I think this is a more complex situation than you make it out to be.

I dont like one-line answers without a motivation :-/.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a bad writer.

I DON'T think this is easy. I was taking a jab at those who always claim easy this, easy that.

Sorry, I don't have much to say about it. You have a loose limper juicing the pot, a desperate stack, and a somewhat reasonable hand soooo push.

b33nz 06-02-2006 11:49 AM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
this is a simple push for me.

LunchMeat523 06-02-2006 01:01 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and theres pretty much 0% this is a trap limp from villain.

[/ QUOTE ] In the $60s if I am UTG+1 I limp here a lot here with a big hand to induce a push from one of the smaller stacks behind me (trap limp). This same situation happened to me yesterday I had TT the small stack pushed with A rag, I called and of course he spiked an A.

Is this a leak? if UTG+1 had TT what is a good line?

TruFloridaGator 06-02-2006 02:08 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
It's not a favorite push of mine or anything, but you gots to.

TruFloridaGator 06-02-2006 02:09 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and theres pretty much 0% this is a trap limp from villain.

[/ QUOTE ] In the $60s if I am UTG+1 I limp here a lot here with a big hand to induce a push from one of the smaller stacks behind me (trap limp). This same situation happened to me yesterday I had TT the small stack pushed with A rag, I called and of course he spiked an A.

Is this a leak? if UTG+1 had TT what is a good line?

[/ QUOTE ]

They aren't you, though.
Using it yourself depends on the table. I do this once in a long while.

LunchMeat523 06-02-2006 02:11 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
Is this a leak? if UTG+1 had TT what is a good line?

TruFloridaGator 06-02-2006 02:15 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is this a leak? if UTG+1 had TT what is a good line?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily.

With a big stack, I would standard raise here. Medium stack could potentially be a push/limp-rr. Shortie = push obviously.

schwza 06-02-2006 04:03 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I don't have much to say about it. You have a loose limper juicing the pot, a desperate stack, and a somewhat reasonable hand soooo push.

[/ QUOTE ]

am i missing something? when did the limper become "loose"? all we know is that he's not trapping. if he was loose i'd push for sure, but here i would not. we are not ahead of any non-fishy limping hands - it has to be A8+ or 77+ unless villain is a fish. i'd fold.

alwardc4 06-02-2006 04:34 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I don't have much to say about it. You have a loose limper juicing the pot, a desperate stack, and a somewhat reasonable hand soooo push.

[/ QUOTE ]

am i missing something? when did the limper become "loose"? all we know is that he's not trapping. if he was loose i'd push for sure, but here i would not. we are not ahead of any non-fishy limping hands - it has to be A8+ or 77+ unless villain is a fish. i'd fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha ha. I have no idea where I got that!

Either way, lets use assumptions on the limper. I would say the average, typical, 60 player has this as his range JTs, QTs+, K9s+, KT+, A2s+, A9+, 22+. Wouldn't this then be a push especially if hero is confident there is no trap?

Eagles 06-02-2006 04:34 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and theres pretty much 0% this is a trap limp from villain.

[/ QUOTE ] In the $60s if I am UTG+1 I limp here a lot here with a big hand to induce a push from one of the smaller stacks behind me (trap limp). This same situation happened to me yesterday I had TT the small stack pushed with A rag, I called and of course he spiked an A.

Is this a leak? if UTG+1 had TT what is a good line?

[/ QUOTE ]
Limping TT is a leak because it is to vulnerable hand what happen if the blinds check through and overs hit or if the blinds flop two pair with rags or flop top pair with jx qx etc. TT is a raising hand here.

alwardc4 06-02-2006 04:43 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
what happen if the blinds check through and overs hit

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, you get away from the hand for cheap. You know its ok to lose a small pot every now and then.

There are 2 reasonable ways to play TT there.

david050173 06-02-2006 05:22 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what happen if the blinds check through and overs hit

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, you get away from the hand for cheap. You know its ok to lose a small pot every now and then.

There are 2 reasonable ways to play TT there.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you do if the BB pushes his AJ? I don't think your a big enough favorite to call. Of course the counter argument is that if he has JJ+ you save chips.

ilya 06-02-2006 05:58 PM

Re: $60 I hate spots like this.
 
i think it's quite close, could easily go either way depending on my read on the limper


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