Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

B&M NL1/2, $200 max buyin. Hero has $650ish. Villain has $1500ish which he's accumulated by hitting almost anything he plays, but without playing terribly wildly.

Hero has J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG and limps for $2. At least 60% of pots are being raised preflop to $10 to $15 so I want to let someone else raise it. A couple limpers, villain raises to $12 from LP and there are about 4 callers.

Flop (5 players, $43): J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
It's checked to the villain who bets $25. Folded to the hero who raises $35 more to $60. Only villain calls.

Turn (2 players, $163): 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets $200. Villain instantly all-in's.

Now what? Hero has almost $400 more. And what might our hero have done differently?

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

This is really hard, I don't think I can muck the second nuts on this board to this player even with 325 BBs. Personally your flop bet blows. Reraise pot or something larger. Personally he could have 88, 44, or even 66, also overpairs might make this move but I probally call after deliberation. 378 to win a 1300+ dollar pot, you only have to be right less than a third of the time and the other you could potentially fill up. I don't think this is a muck.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

Instacall. I'm sure you see two pair, worse sets, overpairs, etc. way more often than you see 75, and even against that you have 10 outs to the nuts. There is also no way I'm putting him on 75 given that he raised with so many limpers. I beat this guy into the pot when he shoves.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

1. Don't fold
2.
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Hero has JJ UTG and limps for $2. At least 60% of pots are being raised preflop to $10 to $15 so I want to let someone else raise it. A couple limpers, villain raises to $12 from LP and there are about 4 callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you want a 5 way pot with JJ?

3. Flop: what?

4. Don't fold. If you did lose, learn to re-raise.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

Capone, unless my math is wrong he's risking $400 for $163+$200+$600=$963 so a bit better than 2.25-to-1. I think you're counting hero's bet if he called as part of the pot size.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

I said 300 whatever to win a 1300 dollar pot. My pot odds are incorrect, your right. It's early but I still make this call unless the villian shows me his hand. He has too many other hands on this board for this to be a muck.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

I'll grant that the post-flop raise was anemic. I know better and I can't explain exactly what brain seizure happened that caused the $35 raise.

As for letting in 5 players with JJ... I don't mind playing JJ like most any middle pair. I don't do that everytime I get JJ, but UTG especially I'm less likely to lead out with a raise, particularly if the game is such that it's likely someone else will raise it if I don't. Perhaps that's stupid, but it helps keep me outta trouble with JJ (helps keep me outta trouble--as we can see, it doesn't prevent it).

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

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I said 300 whatever to win a 1300 dollar pot. My pot odds are incorrect, your right. It's early but I still make this call unless the villian shows me his hand. He has too many other hands on this board for this to be a muck.

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Oh, I completely agree on the call. I'd call this getting anything better than 1-to-1; I think we're easily good here more than half the time.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

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Now what? Hero has almost $400 more. And what might our hero have done differently?

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Raise preflop. Given that you didn't....

Bet flop.

As played I call this.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

beat that mofo in the pot like whoa

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

[ QUOTE ]
As for letting in 5 players with JJ... I don't mind playing JJ like most any middle pair. I don't do that everytime I get JJ, but UTG especially I'm less likely to lead out with a raise, particularly if the game is such that it's likely someone else will raise it if I don't. Perhaps that's stupid, but it helps keep me outta trouble with JJ (helps keep me outta trouble--as we can see, it doesn't prevent it).

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The problem that I have is when you said
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At least 60% of pots are being raised preflop to $10 to $15 so I want to let someone else raise it.

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I would assume that if you were thinking this way, you were going to limp raise and try to take it down PF.

Also, if you want to keep yourself out of trouble with JJ (Because you can't win with it, etc.) You are in terrible position with the limpers behind you, so you are bringing all of the pain upon yourself.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

call this everytime.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

Granted I raise here and if I take the lead in the hand I would fire at the pot with a continuation bet.

That being said. And after looking at hero's line, is a flop "call", instead of the donk reraise or a real reraise that horrible? There are NO flush draws out there, there are no straight draws besides the funky one with 57, which is quite a longshot, if the villain raised (I know he can raise with anything).

Just curious about hearing some thoughts about smoothcalling the flop so we can raise the turn.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

910 Isn't a straight Draw? That's a pretty good one especially in a multiway pot.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

[ QUOTE ]

That being said. And after looking at hero's line, is a flop "call", instead of the donk reraise or a real reraise that horrible?

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A flop call is much much better than a near min-raise, as it's more evasive. The problem arises on later streets, as it looks like a slowplayed monster.

That is another reason why leading into this pot is by far superior. If you are going to disguise the strength of your hand that much preflop, try to get it all in when you hit a killer.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

Don't play scared! You have top set and the only thing that hit is an odd gutshot. 9T maniac shoving as a semi-bluff seems more likely then the gutshot even. Though quite likely see a high pp, set or two pair.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

Please, do get your money in. Now.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

HahahhaaHHAHahaaaaha

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Granted I raise here and if I take the lead in the hand I would fire at the pot with a continuation bet.

That being said. And after looking at hero's line, is a flop "call", instead of the donk reraise or a real reraise that horrible? There are NO flush draws out there, there are no straight draws besides the funky one with 57, which is quite a longshot, if the villain raised (I know he can raise with anything).

Just curious about hearing some thoughts about smoothcalling the flop so we can raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obv raise prf or at least RR prf.

Betting the flop or at least a good sized c/r is in order due to the deepness of stacks.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

Please tell me you didnt fold this, I think he had 66.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

kill yourself if you folded this

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

Obviously he didn't fold.

I'm betting 30 dollars he insta-called and the guy had 5-7.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

Wait you folded it? I assumed he posted it b/c villain turns over 75.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

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Villain has $1500ish which he's accumulated by hitting almost anything he plays

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yikes i didnt read that. FOLD!!! if he doesn't have you beat now than he WILL RIVER you!!!! seriously though, this thread blows.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

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Obviously he didn't fold.

I'm betting 30 dollars he insta-called and the guy had 5-7.

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My money is on he folded.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

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Obviously he didn't fold.

I'm betting 30 dollars he insta-called and the guy had 5-7.

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My money is on he folded.

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I'm like 99% certain he didn't fold this.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

RESULT

The response is universal that this is a must-call. And the response is universal that my raise after the flop was too small, which I knew. I'm a little surprised some people like the idea of rereaising preflop with JJ but yes, I could have done that in this circumstance at this table. I'm just not a big fan of jacks.

I did make the call, though not without some serious thought and outloud rhetorical questions to the guy... "FIVE SEVEN?!? You did not just play five seven like that? NO WAY you could have played five seven here... I call." I had finally decided he hadda have 88, 44, or 66.

He had 57s. He DID bet that flop with an inside straight draw. And he did call the donkish raise of $35 with just an inside straight draw (can't blame him--the $35 raise gave him correct odds to do it if he could assume he would stack me should he hit on the turn).

The good news is I spiked a 4 on the river for the boat, deflecting a bullet.

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

Haha, someone owes me 30 DOLLARS

Re: Did he just hit an inside draw?
 

Man, i forgot how good b&m is.