The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

This is partly from memory, so if I've got anything wrong, please feel free to correct me.

About a month ago, a poster on CasinoMeister accused EH of fixing their doubling game.

Several of us tried the game out for ourselves, and were able to confirm the game was indeed "fixed," returning 2:1, instead of 1:1.

After a couple of days, the software was updated, and results returned to normal.

A couple of days after that, the casino offered a statement through Bryan, the owner/webmaster of CasinoMeister:

[ QUOTE ]
...We have concluded our review of the game play and randomness for all Video Poker games.

...We have found, taking several sample sets over different and varying lengths of time, that they yield in our opinion, a non biased distribution of the cards.

We trust, that we have responded adequately and any doubt in peoples' mind are put to rest...

[/ QUOTE ]

However, later that day, Michael Shackleton ("The Wizard of Odds") posted.

[ QUOTE ]
Yesterday, May 2, I was made aware of the issue possible irregularities in the doubling feature of Odds On software... Until we have had a chance to review the log files we can neither confirm nor deny the accusations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shackleton is a paid consultant for EH, and certifies the fairess of their games.


Two days later, Shackleton confirmed the English Harbour games were indeed fixed, but it was because of a software bug.

[ QUOTE ]
According to English Harbor problem was caused by a buggy software update on April 13, which was automatically corrected by a subsequent update on May 2...

Although both English Harbor and myself believe that April 13 to May 2 was the only period affected we will be scrutinizing earlier logs to make sure....

[/ QUOTE ]

EH sent the bug to The Wizard, and to a CM moderator. Both said they're satisfied with EH's explanation.

No additional logs were disclosed, to my knowledge.

The thread has subsequently been closed.




Whether you believe English Harbour's explanation is up to you (although I'm curious whether you do). But it's worth noting that there've been at least a half-dozen cases of casinos offering fixed games to the public, and none - that i know of - of poker sites doing the same.

This is also the only case - again, that I know of - where a casino wasn't subsequently rogued for offering a fixed game.

The bottom line is that if you're thinking about playing at a casino - whether for bonus or otherwise, you're not in Kansas anymore. Casinos do not operate like poker sites.

You may not just be playing against a house edge - you may be playing against an actual doom switch, as well.


Now the promised bonus link (from a former employee of a Costa Rican based internet company: http://carlhutton.eponym.com/blog/_a...4/1981778.html

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

One of my more bonehead moves happened at EH. I busted the signup bonus and I was given their daily double. It seems like you can only win this when you bust.

So they gave me the bonus amount again and I ran to VP. After not getting crap and getting abused on doubles (way before this above thread's time period), I had something like $5 left. I went to a multi-line slot machine with farm animals and crap and ran it up big, increasing my coin sizes as I went along.

Eventually I had my amount back up to $280 and decided to give $90 spins a couple tries. I ended up going bust trying to hit a big score.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

Was it proved that they deliberately rigged their software?

You know how well they took care of everyone in that situation, right?

They paid out all losses on doubles during the affected time period, plus 20% for inconvenience to all players affected.

They did this within 48 hours of finding out what had happened, and did it without any players having to contact them.

They should not have been rogued, and they were not.

Mistakes happen.

Freakin

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

I'm not one to side with casinos often, but the EH group in whole has been very good to me. As Freakin said, they went over and beyond what they had to do to fix the problem. They even made things public. I got to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I also dig their software.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

I agree they cleaned up better than some would.

But the point is, they screwed up and were highly incompetant. Anyone who has ever coded for a big company knows that you have proper test cycles, release procedures, etc. And yet they seem to have managed to release unfinished code into their production casino. That sort of rank incompetance is unbelievable in an industry where any mistake has a direct $ cost.

I dont believe they cheated, but I'd never play there again.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

Freakin, EH did not come forward voluntarily; in fact, they denied the problem at first.

As far as whether it was intentional, I dunno.

The Wiz and the folks at CM seem to accept the bug story. I'm skeptical. But what do i know?

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

just an aside, wouldnt this thread make more sense in the Internet forum? Lots of people play without bonuses and they should know too

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

I'll cross-post it.

PS - it's "Shackleford," not "Shackleton." My bad.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

ok cool

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

The "bonus link" gives one of the most unpleasantly wrong impressions of Costa Rica I have ever read in my entire life. As a foreigner living here, I was actually offended by this misrepresentation of the country.

However, I do believe his story to be at least partially true; I have been to Oficentro and many casinos/sportsbooks are located there. There is certainly no shortage of shady companies of that nature in Costa rica.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

omg that is so scary [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] that poor guy who lost all that money and couldnt pay for the funeral [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

gambling really scares me sometimes

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

The CIA says the GDP per capita is 10k. Doesn't strike me as particularly poor by 3rd world standards. So what's it like?

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

[ QUOTE ]
The CIA says the GDP per capita is 10k. Doesn't strike me as particularly poor by 3rd world standards. So what's it like?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not the richest place in the world, but it has good areas and bad areas, like anywhere else. His description of the Del Rey hotel is 100% accurate. However, if you go down to that area at night, you are looking for that kind of activity. During the day, that area is actually quite normal.

I find no more or less begging than in your average large North American city. Perhaps less, as at most large intersections, there are people selling flowers, or newspapers, or trinkets. They don't just beg for money.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

[ QUOTE ]
The CIA says the GDP per capita is 10k. Doesn't strike me as particularly poor by 3rd world standards. So what's it like?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's fine. Carl Hutton's article, while probably somewhat accurate, has a few BS things:

1) The "win switch" on RTG. That's [censored]. RTG doesn't have a doomswitch.
2) Costa Rica doesn't have any more panhandlers than a major metropolitan area in the United States.

I have been to CR, even in the exact same location as he (in fact, one mile from where he posted the address of the HQ of Cirrus). It's not nearly as bad as he says.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

Kyleb,

[ QUOTE ]
The "win switch" on RTG. That's [censored]. RTG doesn't have a doomswitch.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know?

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

I doubt he overdid on their description of their shadyness anyway. I've played BetRoyal (yeah we all had to have one of those experiences to teach us to do our homework beforehand. Yet the website was so pretty and purple and how could you not trust purple? Anyway..) And it took two months to get the money back. And I think I'm one of the lucky ones too.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Was it proved that they deliberately rigged their software?

You know how well they took care of everyone in that situation, right?

They paid out all losses on doubles during the affected time period, plus 20% for inconvenience to all players affected.

They did this within 48 hours of finding out what had happened, and did it without any players having to contact them.

They should not have been rogued, and they were not.

Mistakes happen.

Freakin

[/ QUOTE ]

Mistakes like this happen due to a) incompetence or b) malice. Both reasons should make any rational player avoid EH and the Oddson software completely.

And they only fixed the problem and paid out money after it had been exposed on casinomeister and winneronline. You make it sound they did it out of the kindness of their heart. No, they did it because they were caught with their pants down.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt he overdid on their description of their shadyness anyway. I've played BetRoyal (yeah we all had to have one of those experiences to teach us to do our homework beforehand. Yet the website was so pretty and purple and how could you not trust purple? Anyway..) And it took two months to get the money back. And I think I'm one of the lucky ones too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure we've all had our experiences with slippery casinos. So far I've been pretty lucky. But I've had my first big (for me) win recently, so we'll see what happens with that.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

Bryan's (CasinoMeister's) response, with permission:

[ QUOTE ]
If this is a summary of the EH situation in a nutshell, well you're only offering half the shell. You didn't mention that EH admitted that their first statement was in error since they initially analyzed the wrong information. You ought to know know that using the term "fixed" software is a lot different than uploading the "wrong" codes. I'm really dismayed that you feel you need to bait a thread with comments that can poison objective thinking.

You also failed to mention that the EH thread was temporarily locked because members of this forum were not exercising restraint concerning this issue. You make it seem that this is a finished case, and that I'm trying to censor everyone. Thanks a whole hell of a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

[ QUOTE ]

But the point is, they screwed up and were highly incompetant. Anyone who has ever coded for a big company knows that you have proper test cycles, release procedures, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's get a little more technical here. Bugs like that should have been caught WITHOUT any human effort.

You know why? Because any legitimate business would have to implement this thing called unit testing. Programmers would have to write code that tests well-defined software behaviour. This doubling thingy is a perfect example. It's 1:1 not 1:2 so it's well-defined. Then every night, the system would automatically run the testing code. You get the picture.


Remember that famous "predictable RNG" bug years ago on Paradise poker (or was it Paradise?)? That kind of bugs are totally different from this kind in nature.

"People make mistakes." Very true, but not this kind of mistakes. Nice try though.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

Big,

A thing to remember here is EH uses software from OddsOn. OddsOn is not an EH made software as other casinos outside of the EH group use OddsOn software.

I think you're trying to lay blame on the wrong people here. Do you work for a company? When your company purchases software, do they test it before actually using it? How many companies do you think go through MS Word/Excel/Windows/whatever?

OddsOn found the error when getting logs. EH doesn't review their logs, they pay WOO to do that monthly. Kind of tough to blame EH on this one.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

Really? Indeed I didn't get that part the first time I read this thread.

Just curious, how come nobody is bitching about Caribbean Gold Casino or Millionaire Casino? They also use OddsOn software don't they?

[ QUOTE ]
Big,

A thing to remember here is EH uses software from OddsOn. OddsOn is not an EH made software as other casinos outside of the EH group use OddsOn software.

I think you're trying to lay blame on the wrong people here. Do you work for a company? When your company purchases software, do they test it before actually using it? How many companies do you think go through MS Word/Excel/Windows/whatever?

OddsOn found the error when getting logs. EH doesn't review their logs, they pay WOO to do that monthly. Kind of tough to blame EH on this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

I would assume they had the same problems, but that information doesn't seem to be public anywhere. Do people even play at those casinos? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would assume they had the same problems, but that information doesn't seem to be public anywhere. Do people even play at those casinos? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

it's totally possible they didn't apply the same changes to all of their casinos. Look at a group like fortune lounge that is incredibly different from casino to casino

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would assume they had the same problems, but that information doesn't seem to be public anywhere. Do people even play at those casinos? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

it's totally possible they didn't apply the same changes to all of their casinos. Look at a group like fortune lounge that is incredibly different from casino to casino

[/ QUOTE ]


Well if EH strictly licenses software from OddsOn (meaning they can NEVER change the code by themselves as far as the engine is concerned) and OddsOn is a truly independent software vendor then obviously the conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.

Nonetheless my point in the previous post still stands. As the other poster pointed out, this very bug shows that the software vendor is HIGHLY INCOMPETENT.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

[ QUOTE ]

Nonetheless my point in the previous post still stands. As the other poster pointed out, this very bug shows that the software vendor is HIGHLY INCOMPETENT.

[/ QUOTE ]

word

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

English Harbour owns OddsOn.

The problem occured at English Harbour, but not at other OddsOn casinos.

Re: The situation at English Harbour (+Free Bonus Link)
 

[ QUOTE ]
English Harbour owns OddsOn.

The problem occured at English Harbour, but not at other OddsOn casinos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's Iggy?