Head up vs good player
 

Villain in this hand is one of the better players in the room. I think he may be a little too tight, but he is aggressive and reads hands pretty well. Not sure how he views me, but he doesnt think Im bad. He is running terrible.

He opens utg, I 3bet red 99.

Flop:J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He checks, I bet, he raises I call.

Turn: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

He bets, I raise?

Re: Head up vs good player
 

obv. He can certainly find a fold here.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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obv. He can certainly find a fold here.

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Yeah this is probably pretty easy live.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

I like it!

Re: Head up vs good player
 

Yea this looks good. How does he react to running terrible? Does he go "oh [censored] it im calling down with QJ, they cant have it every time" or does he go "Oh [censored] it they have it every time, I'll save $40 and fold"

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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Yea this looks good. How does he react to running terrible? Does he go "oh [censored] it im calling down with QJ, they cant have it every time" or does he go "Oh [censored] it they have it every time, I'll save $40 and fold"

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He runs good usually(lol) so I am not sure, but I think the combination of it being me and my hand looking exactly like AK makes it easy. Also, he is too tight to have QJ here otherwise I would be more hesitant since he would think he had 5 outs. He has AJ or a flush draw every time.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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Villain in this hand is one of the better players in the room. I think he may be a little too tight, but he is aggressive and reads hands pretty well. Not sure how he views me, but he doesnt think Im bad. He is running terrible.

He opens utg, I 3bet red 99.

Flop:J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He checks, I bet, he raises I call.

Turn: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

He bets, I raise?

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i think this is cool.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

Actually I don't really love it. If this guy is good enough to have flush draws when he c/r's flop then isn't he good enough to call your turn raise with AJ/QJ?

So if he just plays a weak/tight style then you really need to figure out how low of a PP he could raise utg and c/r the flop with.

If his range is {JTs, QJs, KJ, AJ, 88-JJ} then you should probably just fold the turn since you only have 17% equity.

Funny, though, that if you add in 77 then raise looks good, as you are getting 7:2 with 26% equity meaning you are basically freerolling at getting him to fold a weaker J/TT.

If he c/r's the flop with flush draws but b/f's a good J on the turn on a drawy board getting 8:1 then I don't think he's necessarily good.

edit: actually even when you add the flush draws it comes down to whether or not he raises 77 utg and c/r's the flop with it. Interestingly, flushdraws have such high equity since many of them have top pair that they don't really change your equity much.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

Is this 10 handed? If it is this is a fold pf, given that he's a tight raiser utg.

I actually hate the turn play here. What hands is he folding that you beat? I don't think he's gonna toss AJ and the K is likely to hit him if he were getting out of line w/a hand like KdQd, AdKd on the flop. I actually prefer to just toss it on this turn.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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. He has AJ or a flush draw every time.

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I don't think this player check raises a flopped flush draw in a heads up situation. Not a particularly good move.

He probably has AJ or tens and wants to see where you are at.

My question: would three betting the flop be total spew?

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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Villain in this hand is one of the better players in the room. I think he may be a little too tight, but he is aggressive and reads hands pretty well. He is running terrible.

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Who is the Villain? Seems like you are describing yourself!

Re: Head up vs good player
 

Based on your read you say this player is too tight yet you still three bet his UTG raise. Why? I would imagine that it has to do with him running bad.

You also say he is one of the better players in the room and reads hands well. I would have to be there but this does not seem like a good spot for a turn raise given the cards on the board and the opponent you are against(even though he is running bad). Have you seen him make some big laydown?

Re: Head up vs good player
 

I really don't understand the whole line. Do you think he is checkraising the flop more often with a hand you are ahead of than with a Jack or better? Or really calling just hoping for a good bluff card on the turn or river?

If he is maybe a little too tight, raises utg, then check-raises the flop, it seems to me that it is time to give it up.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

I don't think he finds a turn fold here. If he's descent then he has to have a big hand. I mean, he checked raised a preflop 3 better... then donked the turn into one of six cards that would hit AK... seems fishy to me. Play so far would SCREAM AK to me and the rest of the table... and he still bet into you on the turn.

I don't like the turn raise.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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Is this 10 handed? If it is this is a fold pf, given that he's a tight raiser utg.

I actually hate the turn play here. What hands is he folding that you beat? I don't think he's gonna toss AJ and the K is likely to hit him if he were getting out of line w/a hand like KdQd, AdKd on the flop. I actually prefer to just toss it on this turn.

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It is 9-handed and I cant believe folding 99 pf is ever an option here.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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. He has AJ or a flush draw every time.

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I don't think this player check raises a flopped flush draw in a heads up situation. Not a particularly good move.

He probably has AJ or tens and wants to see where you are at.

My question: would three betting the flop be total spew?

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I dont like 3betting flop here. It defines my hand such that he is more willing to go to showdown with a better hand.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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I don't think he finds a turn fold here. If he's descent then he has to have a big hand. I mean, he checked raised a preflop 3 better... then donked the turn into one of six cards that would hit AK... seems fishy to me. Play so far would SCREAM AK to me and the rest of the table... and he still bet into you on the turn.

I don't like the turn raise.

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What line would you take with AJ in his spot on the turn?

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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Is this 10 handed? If it is this is a fold pf, given that he's a tight raiser utg.

I actually hate the turn play here. What hands is he folding that you beat? I don't think he's gonna toss AJ and the K is likely to hit him if he were getting out of line w/a hand like KdQd, AdKd on the flop. I actually prefer to just toss it on this turn.

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It is 9-handed and I cant believe folding 99 pf is ever an option here.

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If he's a tight raiser than 99 is a dog to his range JJ+, AJs+, AQo+, KQs. I just don't think its a clear 3 bet but at worst its only a slight mistake.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

Mitch, I believe you said villain has {AJ, flushdraw} every time? If so, open up pokerstove, dude. You should definitely fold the turn and it's not close.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

fold preflop

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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fold preflop

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why would he fold a bed? man thats not only impossible but stupid

Re: Head up vs good player
 

how is there some discussion of folding 99 and no one bothering posting any results from pokerstove?

very tight range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 63.557% 62.55% 01.01% 379140744 6115116.00 { 99+, AJs, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 36.443% 35.43% 01.01% 214784640 6115116.00 { 99 }



loosest range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.571% 55.77% 00.80% 464131068 6638748.00 { 88+, ATs, KQs, AJo+ }
Hand 1: 43.429% 42.63% 00.80% 354771180 6638748.00 { 99 }

losing either way



seems to be fold pf unless something is way off.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

well i hate it if i was you and the villain was someone good i played against regularly, but im guessing that most people you play with dont think youre completely out of your mind. the main reason this might work imo is him frustration mucking bc hes running bad without thinking but i still dont really care for it. ive put a lot of effort into trying to make people fold what was at one point top pair in limit holdem, i dont have much to show for it.

*edit*
btw fold pf here is fine. yellowjacks loosest range is a bit off and should be like 77+/KQo+/AJo+/KJs+/ATs+ but im sure if someone stoves that 99 will still be a dog and the guys range is probably tighter than that. i dont know if the guy you are playing against here is legit good or just some random tight guy, id prefer giving action to someone that is actually good here, giving random tight live players action after they raise in ep is one of the most retarded things you can do. giving action to nobody that raises in ep unless you know theyre really dumb is also a good option.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

I can agree that this is a turn fold on a 2flush board. I just took a random shot at a guy running bad. I think the play is definitely good on a monotone board. I cant digest folding 99 pf though.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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Villain in this hand is one of the better players in the room. I think he may be a little too tight, but he is aggressive and reads hands pretty well. He is running terrible.

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Who is the Villain? Seems like you are describing yourself!

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I think I have figured out who you are, though you are a mystery to everyone @ Canterbury. If I give what I suspect is your first initial, will you say yay or nay?

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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well i hate it if i was you and the villain was someone good i played against regularly, but im guessing that most people you play with dont think youre completely out of your mind. the main reason this might work imo is him frustration mucking bc hes running bad without thinking but i still dont really care for it. ive put a lot of effort into trying to make people fold what was at one point top pair in limit holdem, i dont have much to show for it.

*edit*
btw fold pf here is fine. yellowjacks loosest range is a bit off and should be like 77+/KQo+/AJo+/KJs+/ATs+ but im sure if someone stoves that 99 will still be a dog and the guys range is probably tighter than that. i dont know if the guy you are playing against here is legit good or just some random tight guy, id prefer giving action to someone that is actually good here, giving random tight live players action after they raise in ep is one of the most retarded things you can do. giving action to nobody that raises in ep unless you know theyre really dumb is also a good option.

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I have probably 100 hrs playing with him. We try to stay out of each others way if at all possible. I know he is capable of laying down AJ here. And I also know the feeling you get when you have been getting killed, the K peels off and you bet/turbomuck when villain autoraises. I hope I am not trying to hard to justify this play, bc there are obviously better boards to do this on.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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I don't think he finds a turn fold here. If he's descent then he has to have a big hand.

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no he doesn't, he just needs to have a jack. if he is at all descent, Mitch's hand looks EXACTLY like AK. that is why this play can work here.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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I cant digest folding 99 pf though.

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Folding preflop is standard unless the game is very loose in which case calling is fine.

I don't believe 99 has ever been considered an auto 3bet here.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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I don't think he finds a turn fold here. If he's descent then he has to have a big hand.

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no he doesn't, he just needs to have a jack. if he is at all descent, Mitch's hand looks EXACTLY like AK. that is why this play can work here.

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If I am the villain in this hand I would have a hard time putting Mitch on a hand, and when I have a hard time putting someone on a hand that beats me, I call down.

If I am Mitch in this hand, and I do indeed have AK, I am not raising the turn. If I view the villain as a good player, AND he views me as a good player I think raising the turn when you hit your king has two consequences:
1. he folds a worse hand
2. he 3 bets you
Both scenarios suck.

That is why I don't think this bluff will work. Against a mediocre player.......sure, good spot to bluff. Against a good player, hard to get away with stuff like this.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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I don't think he finds a turn fold here. If he's descent then he has to have a big hand.

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no he doesn't, he just needs to have a jack. if he is at all descent, Mitch's hand looks EXACTLY like AK. that is why this play can work here.

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If I am the villain in this hand I would have a hard time putting Mitch on a hand, and when I have a hard time putting someone on a hand that beats me, I call down.

If I am Mitch in this hand, and I do indeed have AK, I am not raising the turn. If I view the villain as a good player, AND he views me as a good player I think raising the turn when you hit your king has two consequences:
1. he folds a worse hand
2. he 3 bets you
Both scenarios suck.

That is why I don't think this bluff will work. Against a mediocre player.......sure, good spot to bluff. Against a good player, hard to get away with stuff like this.

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if you have ak then you are indifferent to him folding qj/jt.

i'm not sure abou the other part of your argument either--do you really think the equilibrium strategy involves Mitch never raising the turn with any one-pair hands?

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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I don't think he finds a turn fold here. If he's descent then he has to have a big hand.

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no he doesn't, he just needs to have a jack. if he is at all descent, Mitch's hand looks EXACTLY like AK. that is why this play can work here.

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If I am the villain in this hand I would have a hard time putting Mitch on a hand, and when I have a hard time putting someone on a hand that beats me, I call down.

If I am Mitch in this hand, and I do indeed have AK, I am not raising the turn. If I view the villain as a good player, AND he views me as a good player I think raising the turn when you hit your king has two consequences:
1. he folds a worse hand
2. he 3 bets you
Both scenarios suck.

That is why I don't think this bluff will work. Against a mediocre player.......sure, good spot to bluff. Against a good player, hard to get away with stuff like this.

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You would probably consider him mediocre, which is really good in my game.

Re: Head up vs good player
 

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I don't think he finds a turn fold here. If he's descent then he has to have a big hand.

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no he doesn't, he just needs to have a jack. if he is at all descent, Mitch's hand looks EXACTLY like AK. that is why this play can work here.

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If I am the villain in this hand I would have a hard time putting Mitch on a hand, and when I have a hard time putting someone on a hand that beats me, I call down.

If I am Mitch in this hand, and I do indeed have AK, I am not raising the turn. If I view the villain as a good player, AND he views me as a good player I think raising the turn when you hit your king has two consequences:
1. he folds a worse hand
2. he 3 bets you
Both scenarios suck.

That is why I don't think this bluff will work. Against a mediocre player.......sure, good spot to bluff. Against a good player, hard to get away with stuff like this.

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if you are villain, what hands are you betting the turn with?

Re: Head up vs good player
 

With fd on board I am always raising turn w/ AK I think.