Extreme agression
 

Hey people,

Just a question to ask how the rest of you deal with the uber agressive people online. I played a guy last night who just couldnt not raise or call any raise from any position every single hand. Then bet every flop or call all the way to the river.

I re-raised him with QA hearts and he called UTG with J6 spades and flopped a flush on board of 2 7 Q (i lost monies)

Then i re-raised him with position with TT he called and i bet much more than the pot on a rainbow board of 4 4 5, he called the turn was a J and we both checked it down he showed KJ off. (getting more tilt like as game went on)

Finally i made a big raise with AK suited, he re-raised me (again) and i pushed it all in, he showed KK and i didnt spike an ace.

Now before you lot tell me i tilted which i know i did (any variation from my standard game is tilting?) I still believe he was quite possably one of the worst players ever, just so so lucky.

How do you guys play against super agression?

Re: Extreme agression
 

From the way you describe it I am assuming this is cash game and not a tourney. Without chip stacks it is also difficult to see whether your bet sizes were ok. But on the face of it you were playing ok and he got lucky on the first two occasions. If he is that bad you would like him at your table every time.

Quite often such players will only call a raise. Therefore keeping the pot smaller by betting smaller can help. They tend not to re-raise but will bet big to a check. Obviously if you get a monster go for it. Suck outs are unfortunately a necessary evil against crazy players but long term you should be +EV.

Re: Extreme agression
 

Yeah cash play, he took like 2 buy ins from me.

Thing is i know hes a player i can beat, just running rediculously hot, i had to ask myself tho 'am i playing my a game here?'

(i tilted and moved up 2 limits and won quite a bit)

I obviously wont be tilting and moving up limits as a regular thing btw.

(although i more than tripled through in half an hour)

Re: Extreme agression
 

Post the hands, let's see them street-by-street for analysis!

Just from your comments, it sounds like you played fine. Against a guy who raises and shows down every hand, getting it in with Aces Queen kicker in a re-raised pot is a very good thing, as is getting it in pre-flop with AKs.

Re: Extreme agression
 

[ QUOTE ]
Post the hands, let's see them street-by-street for analysis!

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I only just got pokertracker the other night, still trying to learn how to use it properly! :>

lol

Re: Extreme agression
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah cash play, he took like 2 buy ins from me.

Thing is i know hes a player i can beat, just running rediculously hot, i had to ask myself tho 'am i playing my a game here?'

(i tilted and moved up 2 limits and won quite a bit)

I obviously wont be tilting and moving up limits as a regular thing btw.

(although i more than tripled through in half an hour)

[/ QUOTE ]

Players like that will run hot from time to time and you just have to accept it.

Just one thing and I know you know it already by your comments. NEVER move up to chase your losses - might have worked this time but it is a sure fire way to destroy your bankroll.

Re: Extreme agression
 

[ QUOTE ]
(i tilted and moved up 2 limits and won quite a bit)

I obviously wont be tilting and moving up limits as a regular thing btw.

(although i more than tripled through in half an hour)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I keep telling myself that, yet I regularly seem to manage to make a progression from 25 NL to 400 NL to ????NL. So watch yourself, it can become addicting. I don't play for a living, I play for entertainment. My bad mind tells me that it's money I'm up, so go ahead and chase my losses.

For the aggression bit. It's easier to be the aggressive player. You are always putting the other person on the defensive. If they want to raise you, they are risking more of their chips that you don't have a hand. When I'm in an aggressive style, I don't mind when people play back at me. If they do, I only really need a hand approx. 1 out of 3 times or so to 'break' even. When they don't play back at me/fold, I win money.

There's not much you can do. If he's really killing you like this, tighten the screws a little bit. And value bet the heck out of him. Also note that he will float light, but not bet when he hits a card. So it seems that you can trust his raises post flop.

Re: Extreme agression
 

You weren't tilting? You got busted by an idiot, twice. You then moved up in limits to chase your losses. This is teh definition of tilt. You shoud have rebought again. This guy will give it all back, you want to be there when he does.

Re: Extreme agression
 

[ QUOTE ]
You weren't tilting? You got busted by an idiot, twice. You then moved up in limits to chase your losses. This is teh definition of tilt. You shoud have rebought again. This guy will give it all back, you want to be there when he does.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive read the poker mindset so im aware of tilting, and im not really a tilter, i stay away from the chatbox and just try to concentrate on good decisions.

I admit on this occasion i tilted (i think we all do from time to time) I didnt rebuy for a 3rd time because he was running so hot!

Ive also made notes on him and his game, and hope to see him floating around soon so i can go sit to his left :>

Re: Extreme agression
 

The advantage players like villain have over guys like you, is that after 2-3 hands that deal you a bad beat to his, he can take advantage of it when he actually does get a hand- as evidenced by the 3rd hand you described.

My advice- chill. Poker isn't a battle of the egoes, there is no rule that says you have to win a hand vs. this guy. If you can't play back at him without getting sucked out on, don't raise pots into him. Sounds like he'd do the betting for you if you ever hit a hand.

The TT hand was fine, looks like you got your damage control right after the turn. Coulda been much worse for you.

The AQ hand- can't comment unless I know how you were betting postflop.

Re: Extreme agression
 

I'm new to poker, but not to statistics, so I wonder whether choosing not to rebuy "for a 3rd time because he was running so hot" could also be described a kind of tilt?

The laws of probability are immutable; given odds in your favour of (say) 4 to 1 there will still be times that you will lose two (1 in 16), three (1 in 64) or even four times (1 in 256) in a row. But when that fifth chance comes around, regardless of whether you have just won four times in a row or lost four times in a row, the chances are still 4 to 1 in your favour.

OK, I may not want to take even the 20% chance of getting sucked out one more time by a moron, 'cause that'll just tilt me some more, but giving villain credit for powers to change the laws of probability is as mad as calling a big raise with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] because you just *know* you'll make your flush by the river.

Re: Extreme agression
 

Honestly, my advice to you would be to just find a new table. Even though he is TOO aggressive and will likely leak a lot of money over time by playing this style, aggression is tough to play against, whether it is the right amount or too much. There is a reason why all winning players advocate aggressive play - because it forces opponents into making tough decisions. While maniacal play can definitely be countered, it is much easier to play against passive players. So if you have the option, just change tables. I am assuming this is at the lower limits where you have a choice of many tables.

Re: Extreme agression
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I may not want to take even the 20% chance of getting sucked out one more time by a moron

[/ QUOTE ]

80-20 favorite?

;x I'll take those odds then if you won't.

Re: Extreme agression
 

My solution to Taz...

Situation 1:
Taz sits down and proceeds to suck out on you in three of the first five hands, hitting miracle draws on the turn/river despite your clearly having bet enough to get him to fold his weak-assed hand.

Solution:
Reload and tighten up just a little. As long as this Taz doesn't leave the table, you WILL get your money back. Either directly from him or vicariously through someone else he doubles up. And add Taz to your friends list. You want to be able to find him again later and take what's left of his money. This is the fun Taz because they like to build their stack to four and five times the buy-in, then lose it all back.


Situation 2:
Taz plays every hand and catches card after card, while you get 1 hand/hour to play and miss that flop completely. (This is often the most frustrating of the bunch for me, but there's little you can do beyond hoping your cards turn around before he leaves.)

Solution:
Add Taz to your friends list and change tables. If you're running bad while someone else is getting everything, changing tables will sometimes change your luck. And by adding him to your FL, you can find him later when you're running better and he's not.


If Taz puts you on tilt, follow the advice for Situation 2. If it's that bad, quit playing for a while. Even the best players go on tilt every now and again, and taking a break is sometimes the best thing you can do. Continuing to play, or worse, moving UP in limits, will usually just end up costing you more money.

Re: Extreme agression
 

Grumpy:

Why are you rebuying?

a) You feel frustrated and vengeful and are waiting for the right hand.
b) You are on edge because you're in the red, and want to get back to $0 before you stop playing.
c) You are on your game and waiting so you can spring your trap.

a = tilt. b = tilt. c = correct.

The moment you start to LOVE donks (instead of hating them) is a monumental moment. Haven't you heard that famous quote... "There's gold in them there donks"... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]