Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

In a typical dirty political trick, some Iowa voters received phone calls (known as "push polls") criticizing Mitt Romney's Mormon faith. These calls are obviously designed to undermine Romney's campaign in a state with a low Mormon population. These underhanded smear tactics designed to elicit bigotry need to be totally condemnded. I feel sorry for Mitt Romney having to endure such loathsome tactics by his desperate opponents.



Or at least that is the story that the Romney campaign put out. A few journalists decided to take a closer look at these smear phone calls. First they took a look at the two people the Romney campaign put forward as having received these calls. The Romney campaign omitted some key information about these two phone call reciptients: they are both paid Romney staffers.

In another amazing coincidence the firm responsible for making these calls was Western Wats, a company based in Utah. An examination of campaign contributions discovered that many Western Wats employees are Romney donors.

It is not a proven fact, but cursory evidence suggests that these calls were done by pro-Romeny people, if not the campaign itself, as a way of generating sympathy for Romney, a poor man viciously attacked for his religious beliefs.

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Wow, could you link to a story about this? I heard about the calls and Romney whining about them, I havn't heard the conspiracy part.

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

Mark Hemingway in the National Review has an article on this. It doesn't include all the information, but it gives some info on the controversy.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...GE=&w=MA==

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

I think it was an attempt to defuse Mormonism as an issue by forcing all the other candidates to go on the record "deploring such dispicable attacks". Once they'd gotten a few media cycles of everyone saying how we should view Mormons just like any other mainstream religion, it would make it much harder to shift gears and start calling them cultists.

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I saw this article that said the same thing is happening in NH. Apparently, this type of tactic is explicitly illegal under New Hampshire law and the Attorney General is investigating.

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Wow is this going to backfire.

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Wow is this going to backfire.

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Its possible the Romney Campaign agrees. The Tribune article suggests the firm making the calls has ties to the Giuliani campaign, but Jack's article suggests the firm might favor Romney. That article said that if he can get the other candidates on record saying Romney's faith isn't an issue that that will help defuse the issue.

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

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Wow is this going to backfire.

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On both of them. Unless they find Romney is doing it to himself.

But Romney believes in Joseph Smith and all that BS where he dictated the text to some guy and now he wants to be pres? come on.

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

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Wow is this going to backfire.

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On both of them. Unless they find Romney is doing it to himself.

But Romney believes in Joseph Smith and all that BS where he dictated the text to some guy and now he wants to be pres? come on.

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I don't see why someone believing in Joseph Smith and the golden plates is so much more farfetched than believing in Moses and that God gave him the Ten Commandments, or more farfetched than believing that the Koran contains the words of Allah given to Muhammad via the archangel Gabriel.

Joseph Smith and the Mormon story just appears more strange to people unfamiliar with the faith. It isn't really much more farfetched.

Most people generally believe and feel comfortable with what they were raised up with as children. The fact that they have a religious background doesn't necessarily mean they can't make sound or moral decisions.

Of course, if they believe in something that has evil real-world effects, rather than in something merely erroneous or frivolous, then that may become a different matter (as in believing in Shari'a Law, a system with evil real-world effects when viewed through the lens of a Western civil-rights-oriented perspective).

Romney doesn't favor replacing the Constitution with Mormon Law, does he? (heh, I don't suppose so [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ); therefore, I don't think it is a big deal.

So Romney believing in Joseph Smith etc. is not more wacky than Jews believing in Moses and the Ten Commandments (literally), Muslims believing in the Koran, or Catholics or Protestants believing in various things.

You might think only atheists can reason well, or that only atheists would make good candidates for President (do you think that? Just curious), but don't forget: the atheists could be wrong too.

Thanks for reading.

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

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I don't see why someone believing in Joseph Smith and the golden plates is so much more farfetched than believing in Moses and that God gave him the Ten Commandments,

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It might not be, but 86% of Americans believe the latter and not the former, while a tiny percentage believe both, smaller than the percentage who believe neither.

I don't think there is any way to plausibly deny that being Mormon will hurt Romney. Now, I doubt it will be decisive, as obviously he has already achieved high elected office in the past.

Edit: Removed double negative. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

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I don't see why someone believing in Joseph Smith and the golden plates is so much more farfetched than believing in Moses and that God gave him the Ten Commandments,

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It might not be, but 86% of Americans believe the latter and not the former, while a tiny percentage believe both, smaller than the percentage who believe neither.

I don't think there is any way to plausibly deny that being Mormon will not hurt Romney. Now, I doubt it will be decisive, as obviously he has already achieved high elected office in the past.

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I agree with your assessment (not necessarily the specific percentage, as I don't know about that; but with the rest of your post).

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I hope all these knuckleheads just keep beating each other up.

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I am shocked, shocked to find that deceptive and dirty-handed campaigning is going on here!

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Of course, if they believe in something that has evil real-world effects, rather than in something merely erroneous or frivolous, then that may become a different matter

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I believe this is the case with mormons. Having been raised in that religion, I can tell you their world-view is very apocalyptic. All the reasons why it is dangerous to have a born-again evangelical as president also apply to mormons.

Furthermore, they really do believe that TWO different groups of dark-skinned minorities (african blacks and native american indians) are dark-skinned because of a curse from god. This is generally a harmless superstition but on the other hand it makes you nervous about what someone who believes such a thing might be capable of justifying to themselves.

Furthermore, the mormons believe their males have a special and elite connection to god called the "priesthood". It is a kind of special blessing you get when you become a teenager and the best way to describe to a layman is that your prayers now have more authority and priority with god than other people. You even believe that those without the priesthood are less 'worthy'. "Worthy" is a very ubiquitous term used by mormons to delineate people. You are "Worthy" to attend the temple or you are "unworthy". (and part of being "worthy" is based on whether you give money to the church).

Generally, I agree that silly superstitions are all basically interchangeable. I won't say that a mormon believer is any more less intelligent or capable of critical thought than a jewish believer or a gaia-worshipping hippy, but I will say that the mormon's beliefs are more cause for concern.

Now, on the other hand I can say that I was raised mormon and my parents and their peers raised their kids to be unequivocally non-racist and to judge people on their character and actions above all else. However, I did get a lot of apocalyptic nonsense drilled into me and I wouldn't want anyone as president who really believed these are the "last days" (as they like to call it) and that there is an inevitable worldwide conflagration epicentered in the middle east that is about to occur.

I think it would be absolutely fair to question Romney about his take on some of these core mormon beliefs.

natedogg

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

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I am shocked, shocked to find that deceptive and dirty-handed campaigning is going on here!

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What do you expect from the usual suspects?

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

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Of course, if they believe in something that has evil real-world effects, rather than in something merely erroneous or frivolous, then that may become a different matter

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I believe this is the case with mormons. Having been raised in that religion, I can tell you their world-view is very apocalyptic. All the reasons why it is dangerous to have a born-again evangelical as president also apply to mormons.

Furthermore, they really do believe that TWO different groups of dark-skinned minorities (african blacks and native american indians) are dark-skinned because of a curse from god. This is generally a harmless superstition but on the other hand it makes you nervous about what someone who believes such a thing might be capable of justifying to themselves.

Furthermore, the mormons believe their males have a special and elite connection to god called the "priesthood". It is a kind of special blessing you get when you become a teenager and the best way to describe to a layman is that your prayers now have more authority and priority with god than other people. You even believe that those without the priesthood are less 'worthy'. "Worthy" is a very ubiquitous term used by mormons to delineate people. You are "Worthy" to attend the temple or you are "unworthy". (and part of being "worthy" is based on whether you give money to the church).

Generally, I agree that silly superstitions are all basically interchangeable. I won't say that a mormon believer is any more less intelligent or capable of critical thought than a jewish believer or a gaia-worshipping hippy, but I will say that the mormon's beliefs are more cause for concern.

Now, on the other hand I can say that I was raised mormon and my parents and their peers raised their kids to be unequivocally non-racist and to judge people on their character and actions above all else. However, I did get a lot of apocalyptic nonsense drilled into me and I wouldn't want anyone as president who really believed these are the "last days" (as they like to call it) and that there is an inevitable worldwide conflagration epicentered in the middle east that is about to occur.

I think it would be absolutely fair to question Romney about his take on some of these core mormon beliefs.

natedogg

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I didn't know that much about Mormonism; thanks for the info.

Based on your description of Mormon beliefs, I think it would indeed be reasonable and appropriate to question Romney in more depth about his religious beliefs; and about what ways, if any, that his beliefs might impact his policy preferences.

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

natedogg, can you please explain whats up with the magic underwear?

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Thanks for the info, I didn't know that much about Mormanism.

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Furthermore, they really do believe that TWO different groups of dark-skinned minorities (african blacks and native american indians) are dark-skinned because of a curse from god.

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Do they feel that Asian's have been cursed by god for their cowardice?

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

John Kilduff,

Believing a holy baby dropped out of a virgin disqualifies you from being president in my eyes.

When did being "christian" become a pre-req for high office?

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

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You might think only atheists can reason well, or that only atheists would make good candidates for President (do you think that? Just curious), but don't forget: the atheists could be wrong too.

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Well of course. There's nothing reasonable or logical about atheism, it's just another religion. Only agnostics can reason well and would make a good president. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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When did being "christian" become a pre-req for high office?

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Always? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Outrageous Anti-Mormon bigotry against Romney
 

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natedogg, can you please explain whats up with the magic underwear?

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It's magic.

Maybe I should start an "ask natedogg about mormonism" thread.

natedogg

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natedogg, can you please explain whats up with the magic underwear?

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It's magic.

Maybe I should start an "ask natedogg about mormonism" thread.

natedogg

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Slight hijack, but I'd be interested in this. If you can, I'd put it in EDF as opposed to OOT to keep it more serious.