$200NL - Hows My Line?
 

Villain is 16/5 over a lot of hands

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $199.20
Hero (SB): $200
BB: $151.85
UTG: $271
UTG+1: $96.25
UTG+2: $195.25
MP1: $306.50
MP2: $367.25
CO: $191

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
6 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $8</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $26</font>, BB folds, BTN calls $18

Flop: ($54) 2http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Ahttp://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif 2http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($54) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $20</font>, Hero calls $20

River: ($94) Khttp://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

I definitely bet this river, something like 50$ as I think there are a couple of A hands he would call with but check behind if checked to.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

bet

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

I bet/fold the flop, and I definitely bet this river.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

Betting is alot better imo because he'll call with a wider range than he'll bet with

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

i bet/fold this flop almost always. this type of player just wont play back with qq or jj so you're not worried about getting bluff raised really. you can always check the turn and he will check it back with those hands also.

as played, you have to bet the river. he's not going to value-bet one pair here, especially with the flush hitting. just try to make a value bet and hope to get a call out of an ace.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

are you trying to mock full ring players by posting this?

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

Question for you all:

Which hands in his range is he checking behind on this river?

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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Question for you all:

Which hands in his range is he checking behind on this river?

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Like almost everything except TT and you're going to be able to get his stacks with that hand by leading anyways. I mean, he can bluff too, but I'm really not so sure that he's going to have many hands that he wants to bluff here much less the willingness to pull the trigger.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

I actually cant think of a single hand he'd call a 3bet in position with, then check behind this river.

The only 2 hands that he might do this with are QQ/JJ. Those are lol not calling a bet on this river anyways.

He is not checking behind AK/AQ here imo

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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I actually cant think of a single hand he'd call a 3bet in position with, then check behind this river.

The only 2 hands that he might do this with are QQ/JJ. Those are lol not calling a bet on this river anyways.

He is not checking behind AK/AQ here imo

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This is FR, he is a lot. What hands is he going to be getting value from with AQ? Unless you're running at a 6maxesque 24/21 or something he's not going to expect you to 3bet anything worse than 99+ and AQ+. Of those hands there isn't much that you can really call with that AQ is ahead of and even AK might fear a c/r. The guy is a 16/5 after all.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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I actually cant think of a single hand he'd call a 3bet in position with, then check behind this river.

The only 2 hands that he might do this with are QQ/JJ. Those are lol not calling a bet on this river anyways.

He is not checking behind AK/AQ here imo

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This is FR, he is a lot. What hands is he going to be getting value from with AQ? Unless you're running at a 6maxesque 24/21 or something he's not going to expect you to 3bet anything worse than 99+ and AQ+. Of those hands there isn't much that you can really call with that AQ is ahead of and even AK might fear a c/r. The guy is a 16/5 after all.

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this is a really good post.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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He is not checking behind AK/AQ here imo

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He ain't folding either, brahseph. And given his PF stats and how little he bet on the turn, he's going to bet much smaller than he would've called w/ on the river. Thus, your river CR (which he isn't calling) is more likely to net you less than just betting.

I'd just bet $70.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

I don't like bet folding this flop; if he calls or raises he has you beat and if he folds it's probably a hand you have beat and have just missed value from. You play this hand fine until the river although there is some potential for a small bet on the turn but c/c was fine also. You have to bet the river for value though - he's checking behind with a lot of his range here. I'd lead out for around 2/3rds pot.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

People keep saying hes checking behind with a lot or the majority of his range.

He is checking behind:

QQ/JJ - Irrelevant since hes folding to a river bet.
AQ - I think he bets it a lot of the time, but I can understand and accept the arguments you all have given me for why he checks behind here
AK - I think he bets it almost every time, but I can understand and accept the arguments you all have given me for why he checks behind here


So does this constitute a lot/the majority of his range?

I cant really imagine him not bluffing the river with any other random holdings he could have given my line.

Just seems like betting the river is only better than checkraising in the sense that it gets value from AK/AQ when AK/AQ aren't betting the river.


Like, I am pretty confident his betting range is wider than his calling range. I don't think you guys have factored in the random crap people call 3bets with in position when they have a LP raise 3bet.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

i would c/r someone who has more flushes in their range, but given turn bet size i agree w/ phresh that even if he bets wider than he calls its very close to the same range and you will bet bigger than he will.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

I didn't read any replies yet....(so maybe a fresh opinion)

pf - you have to reraise obv...
-It could be read by villain as a resteal. even though he could be stealing with a wide range here, guys like this aren't calling reraises with much, so we can narrow his range

flop - given above and no history(you didn't speak of any) I would cbet and fold to a raise. As played, are you folding to a bet here? If you are willing to call say a half pot bet, you may as well be the one betting.

turn - If he calls my cbet, I'd probably check fold, maybe incorrectly but at this point he isn't folding aq, ak or a10, maybe aj but I don't want to try to make him. there is a small chance he has qq, jj and even smaller chance flush draw, ax or 2x......As played same as flop..if you are willing to call $20 why not bet $20 or so(half pot) as most if not any pairs are in his range

river - if he calls my cbet and I for what ever reason I decide to call a bet on the turn, the pot would be at least $100....I shove, he will have to call with most of what he got here with........as played, his small turn bet makes me think there is a good chance he will check behind unless he has 1010 or the flush, both of which are calling or raising a bet so I don't like a check raise here. bet $60-$65 and hope he either made a hand or bluffs.

my $.02

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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flop - given above and no history(you didn't speak of any) I would cbet and fold to a raise. As played, are you folding to a bet here? If you are willing to call say a half pot bet, you may as well be the one betting.


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Why do people say this?

By betting, he folds every single worse hand and calls/raises every single better hand.

So I might as well be the one betting? Why. If I bet he will never bluff. If I bet and he decides to bluff, it will work.

Betting Axx flops with KK generally sucks.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

after reading replies......

A player like this is checking behind with more than you think. It is not uncommon to see any ace other than AK and some smaller flushes do it. Given that players like this are not calling reraises with suited crap and even then if they did the chance is small that they did happen to this time with clubs , you have to lead river here. also I think Ak and KQc can be discounted, you have 2 of the kings

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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Why do people say this?

By betting, he folds every single worse hand and calls/raises every single better hand.

So I might as well be the one betting? Why. If I bet he will never bluff. If I bet and he decides to bluff, it will work.

Betting Axx flops with KK generally sucks.


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because a player this tight will fold some hands that beat you. If you check here,you have given him hope that will carry him to the river that his Ax is good.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

cbetting Axx flops with any two cards that you happened to raise with is +EV.....

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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cbetting Axx flops with any two cards that you happened to raise with is +EV.....

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ok but that doesnt make it the best line w/ any hand or even make it a good line at all w/ some hands

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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because a player this tight will fold some hands that beat you. If you check here,you have given him hope that will carry him to the river that his Ax is good.

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lol are you kidding me?

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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cbetting Axx flops with any two cards that you happened to raise with is +EV.....

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so what?

Is it the best play?

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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ok but that doesnt make it the best line w/ any hand or even make it a good line at all w/ some hands

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ok but it makes it at worst a good line. +ev is +ev. cbetting with KK on any flop is better that playing it passively and getting bluffed by JJ because you showed weakness.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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ok but that doesnt make it the best line w/ any hand or even make it a good line at all w/ some hands

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ok but it makes it at worst a good line. +ev is +ev. cbetting with KK on any flop is better that playing it passively and getting bluffed by JJ because you showed weakness.

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no it doesnt make it at worst a good line. open-shoving AA first to act is +EV but it sucks. And just b/c you check doesnt mean you have to c/f and get bluffed by JJ.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

ok.

check flop

check call smallish bet on turn

you don't hit your two outer on river, what now?

fold to any bet?
hope you get a free showdown?
bluff having absolutely no idea where you are in the hand?

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

Disclaimer: I play NL25 :-\
I think it's kinda read-dependant, if he's passive/nitty enough I can see him check behind AQ/AK here (its a rr pot). I honestly think it's a close call.

(N00b corner)
I have a question for OP: what's your plan if opponent bets the flop?

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Disclaimer: I play NL25 :-\
I think it's kinda read-dependant, if he's passive/nitty enough I can see him check behind AQ/AK here (its a rr pot). I honestly think it's a close call.

(N00b corner)
I have a question for OP: what's your plan if opponent bets the flop?

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call

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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cbetting Axx flops with any two cards that you happened to raise with is +EV.....

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so what?

Is it the best play?

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do you also occasionally check AA/AK here? if not, your hand becomes very readable and a perceptive player would attack when you check after 3betting pf.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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cbetting Axx flops with any two cards that you happened to raise with is +EV.....

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so what?

Is it the best play?

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do you also occasionally check AA/AK here? if not, your hand becomes very readable and a perceptive player would attack when you check after 3betting pf.

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I would check AA/AK more than I would bet AA/AK here.

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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(N00b corner)
I have a question for OP: what's your plan if opponent bets the flop?

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call

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And c/f turn? (last n00b question, i swear, and thx for the answer)

Re: $200NL - Hows My Line?
 

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(N00b corner)
I have a question for OP: what's your plan if opponent bets the flop?

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call

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And c/f turn? (last n00b question, i swear, and thx for the answer)

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Against this particular villain I'd probably not be comfortable calling more than one street. In general, however, there are plenty of times where i'd c/c, c/c, c/c or usually c/c, checked through, c/c