weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

Villain is probably one of you...I know we've played together before, but I'm on a new computer so I dont have any stats/notes other than this session.

UTG is a fish, obv
Villain is running 21/18
I have no idea how he views me...I've been pretty card dead/nitty so far.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $225.30
UTG: $344.55
BTN: $402
Hero (SB): $212.35

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG calls $2, <font color="red">BTN raises to $12</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $40</font>, 2 folds, BTN calls $28

Flop: ($84) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($84) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $45</font>, Hero folds

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

hes a very straightforward tag, not very tricky imo. it cbet the flop every time, once you check theres not really any other way to play it.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

just do cb

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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hes a very straightforward tag, not very tricky imo. it cbet the flop every time, once you check theres not really any other way to play it.

[/ QUOTE ]is a straightforward tag every folding to a cbet on this board?

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

Sure why not? Hes never going to fold if you dont bet in the first place. Id make it $55, he doesnt have to fold that often for it to be profitable.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

$50 on the flop would be good

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

ugh I hate playing against Unkle Rukus, and I don't really consider him to be a straightforward TAG, he definitely 3-bets me a bit light but whatever. Do you c-bet most flops? Like would you bet AK here? If so then bet.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

i think checking the flop is fine. i'd probably fire the turn and push the river if he calls.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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i think checking the flop is fine. i'd probably fire the turn and don't have any money left on the river if he calls.

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Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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hes a very straightforward tag, not very tricky imo. it cbet the flop every time, once you check theres not really any other way to play it.

[/ QUOTE ]is a straightforward tag every folding to a cbet on this board?

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You think his preflop calling range is AK/JJ+?

I'd probably bet the flop and give up if called.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

betting flop &gt;&gt; checking flop then betting turn.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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i think checking the flop is fine. i'd probably fire the turn and don't have any money left on the river if he calls.

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Bet $50 into 80 on the turn. Makes the pot 180 on the river with $120 left behind. I think a 2/3 bet looks like a value bet. I think we still have FE, do u?

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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betting flop &gt;&gt; checking flop then betting turn.

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agree

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

i cant see villain folding 88-QQ to just a flop bet.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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i cant see villain folding 88-QQ to just a flop bet.

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so????

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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i cant see villain folding 88-QQ to just a flop bet.

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so????

[/ QUOTE ]so isn't that a huge part of his range?

He's never calling one street and folding to 1/2 pot shove, so I think thats dumb.

Options are:
1) dont put any money in- check and fold whenever he bets
2) bet 50ish on the flop
3) bet 50ish on the turn

Also, 3bet size? I didnt think about it and just hit the "pot" button

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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i cant see villain folding 88-QQ to just a flop bet.

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so????

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so why bet the flop and then give up (which is what some ppl have suggested) if he like never folds flop with worse?

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

why give up?

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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why give up?

[/ QUOTE ]because I thought I'd be giving him my money, and I like money.

?

Seriously though, I just dont think he would ever fold a pair to me on this flop, and once he called the flop bet he'd only have 1/2 pot left.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

heres what I'm hearing, you've assigned him a range, you've decided what he'll do with that range, and you can math the rest out. I assume your question is then, is this too weak on the turn since he could have random SCs or something, but again, just add that to his range, figure out the FE you need for different size flop bets and try and find which one has the most optimal EV to it. I'm assuming with the range you choose(88-QQ, not much else), it would be either c/f, or b small, b small, c/f, but again, if you've done the work, just solve the rest out &lt;3. Its all guess work at this point anyway. Games of incomplete information are fun!

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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i cant see villain folding 88-QQ to just a flop bet.

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so????

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so why bet the flop and then give up (which is what some ppl have suggested) if he like never folds flop with worse?

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directed towards casper's last post to: why is a pp suddenly all he's got here? Games are such that his range will be alot wider then that.

Secondly, are you c/c?

thirdly, "no worse will call/better fold" so? He'll fold JT alot. That has ~25% equity against your hand.




I'm not saying c/f is bad, but you should prob bet if you have a good image whish it sounds like you do from op. However, checking the flop then betting the turn is sooooo much worse then betting the flop. Your range is weaker, his will probably be stronger.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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i cant see villain folding 88-QQ to just a flop bet.

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so????

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so why bet the flop and then give up (which is what some ppl have suggested) if he like never folds flop with worse?

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directed towards casper's last post to: why is a pp suddenly all he's got here? Games are such that his range will be alot wider then that.

Secondly, are you c/c?

thirdly, "no worse will call/better fold" so? He'll fold JT alot. That has ~25% equity against your hand.




I'm not saying c/f is bad, but you should prob bet if you have a good image whish it sounds like you do from op. However, checking the flop then betting the turn is sooooo much worse then betting the flop. Your range is weaker, his will probably be stronger.

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I would c/f. I think the majority of his range is PP. He might show up with a sc occassionally but much more likely to have PP IMO

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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i think checking the flop is fine. i'd probably fire the turn and don't have any money left on the river if he calls.

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Bet $50 into 80 on the turn. Makes the pot 180 on the river with $120 left behind. I think a 2/3 bet looks like a value bet. I think we still have FE, do u?

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Sorry, thought you meant bet flop, bet turn, bet river. But I agree with US that if we're planning to bet this hand anywhere it's the flop (because our hand range on the turn after checking the flop is weak).

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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i think checking the flop is fine. i'd probably fire the turn and don't have any money left on the river if he calls.

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Bet $50 into 80 on the turn. Makes the pot 180 on the river with $120 left behind. I think a 2/3 bet looks like a value bet. I think we still have FE, do u?

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Sorry, thought you meant bet flop, bet turn, bet river. But I agree with US that if we're planning to bet this hand anywhere it's the flop (because our hand range on the turn after checking the flop is weak).

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Would you check AK on this flop?

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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i think checking the flop is fine. i'd probably fire the turn and don't have any money left on the river if he calls.

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Bet $50 into 80 on the turn. Makes the pot 180 on the river with $120 left behind. I think a 2/3 bet looks like a value bet. I think we still have FE, do u?

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Sorry, thought you meant bet flop, bet turn, bet river. But I agree with US that if we're planning to bet this hand anywhere it's the flop (because our hand range on the turn after checking the flop is weak).

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Would you check AK on this flop?

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Sometimes. Maybe 25% or so.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

this looks fine. i pretty much agree with every street. only other option i see is to double barrel. Alot depends on how light he calls your raise.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

If we dont want to be betting AQ on the turn because our hand range looks weak after checking the flop then we should be checking AK 100% of the time on this flop no?

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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If we dont want to be betting AQ on the turn because our hand range looks weak after checking the flop then we should be checking AK 100% of the time on this flop no?

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I prefer betting most of my range on the flop instead, throwing in some checks with AA/KK/QQ/AK and sometmies check AQ and other missed hand when I feel my image suck or vs other types of players than this one. Given our solid/nitty image I like to c-bet AQ vs this player.

I just don't get the point of checking AK 100% just so we can check the flop with AQ (and other missed hands) and then bet the turn with them. We now also need to throw in tons of checks with the rest of our range and what we do is basically delaying our c-bet to the turn which:
1. Gives the c-bet to villain. He can fire when we check the flop and we need to fold our missed hands.
2. Give a free card for villain to hit his hand.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

I like the hand as played. Nothing wrong with c/folding as pfraiser. If you think his hand range is strong, 77+/AQ+ for calling the 3bet and you think he rarely folds a pocket pair then any other way of playing it is spew.

I would probably either give up or fire flop and turn all in. I'm finding TAGs beginning to call 3 bets with pocket pairs, calling one barrel and folding to the second.

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

CBET PLEASE!

Re: weird spot in 3bet pot vs regular (Unkle_Rukus)
 

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If we dont want to be betting AQ on the turn because our hand range looks weak after checking the flop then we should be checking AK 100% of the time on this flop no?

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absolutely not... im betting AK alot on this flop... you can get value from like any pocket pair he has as well as a weaker K.