VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

villian is 43/13 and like waaaaaaay [censored] deep. he will pot out a lot of A high flops oop. he pretty much bets to when checked to post flop. now i gotz the 2nd nuts here with a pretty LAG image.

i have been gettin the best of him so far.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $5/$10 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $320.00
BB: $3,909.85
UTG: $1,060.00
CO: $1,684.00
Hero (BTN): $4,383.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $30.00</font>, SB folds, BB calls $20.00

Flop: ($65) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $45.00</font>, BB calls $45.00

Turn: ($155) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $95.00</font>, BB calls $95.00

River: ($345) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $265.00</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $1,040.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero ...? </font>

he has about 2.5-3k behind after he raises. do i shove? or do i call? or do i make a raise...? if so how much???

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

Call. Also just to be nitty its the 5th nuts.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

I will rr to 2.5k based on images. If he is aggressive as you say i think he will rr u on flop with A high draws. So I think your ahead here 99% of the time. There is a 4 card straight out there which is good. I would believe 2.5k would just be enough where he could pay you off. A little more than a min.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

given ur description of villain and history...i'd make it 2.7ish total on the river. i think u can probably get some frustrated calls from alot worse...obv the worse he is the more calls.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

I think a good case can be made for just calling, as if you call and lose you still have over 300BB with which to wait for a (practically) risk free spot to get most of villain's stack.

However, it's possible that he would call a shove with a worse flush often enough to compensate for the times he has the ace high one. Whether that's the case depends on what you know of him as a player.

Given only what you've said in your post, I'd call for the reason stated above.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

Minreraise. I think by calling you miss out on value from an overplayed 7x, 87, and smaller flushes.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

I like shoving because I think his entire river raising range is flushes and he probably never folds them to a shove. Sometimes he'll have the nut flush or some fluke straight flush but you're usually going to be kicking yourself when you call and he flips up T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or something.

Actually I didn't see the board has 4 cards to a straight, so I suppose he could have a random 7 here but that still doesn't seem too likely he would go for a big river c/r with that.

Reraising to $2.5k total or something is fine, so is shoving. I'd never just call though, you lose so much value against this guy by not raising.

Against a good regular I think calling is fine though, fwiw.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

I'm in the minreraise camp, I'd feel pretty retarded if i made it 2.7 and he shoved.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

If his VPIP was under 40 I would consider just calling

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
If his VPIP was under 40 I would consider just calling

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

op states 43/15

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

I think this hand is pretty interesting. Like some have said it'd be a shame to lose any significant chunk of your stack so you no longer cover him by reopening and being behind, I'd hate to 3b then make a crying call if he shoves and I dont think I could seeing as it puts you in roughly the same spot as calling an allin and then reloading stack wise.
I dont get the minraise logic. If he's going to call an extra 80bb w/ 7x or smaller flushes he's certainly going to call ~140bb more or so. I think he'd be less likely to shove over a larger 3b too w/ the flushes we do beat. Seems like too much risk to reopen betting for just ~80bb.

As played I'm in the call camp. I also bet more on flop/turn.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

shove, then type in "you got the 7 or just the 2?"

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

I probably end up calling because of the size of his raise.

And it is only the 5th nuts..

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

you that say minraise, are you folding to a push?

I think you have to raise here, but I wouldnt do it if I am not ready to call a push.

I dont mind a push either, I dont think he is laying down a lower flush, and who knows, he might even call with a 7.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

Villian is not ever ever ever ever pushing a flush that we beat, unless he is completely batshit insane or completely retarded. I still like making it 2kish, and yes I'm folding to a shove.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villian is not ever ever ever ever pushing a flush that we beat, unless he is completely batshit insane or completely retarded

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think we can eliminate the chance that he is just batshit insane or completely retarded with the description provided.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

2.5 seems fine. he has to be pretty fking dumb to call a shove with worse and he has to be pretty fking dumb to shove with worse.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
2.5 seems fine. he has to be pretty fking dumb to call a shove with worse and he has to be pretty fking dumb to shove with worse.

[/ QUOTE ]
agreed. but i'd still call a shove.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

What if we have the Q high or the J high flush?

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
What if we have the Q high or the J high flush?

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably a call, def no reraise.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

I like calling, shoving and minraising much better than making it a medium amount. Actually not sure what I'd do.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

hmmmm interesting posts. i agree with flat claling like J and Q high flushes.

catcher- i think thats a [censored] dick thing to do if u would ever do that and im not a big fan of doing it... unless of course its vs u.

again if i made it like 2.5 or w/e and he shoved im not gonna fold for 1.2k more or w/e it was vs this guy id rather him shove that [censored] in my face tahn have him shove a 7 or lower flush (for value.... lol)

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

Why do you think Catcher's thing a dick thing to do?

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

it's not dick, it's just stupid

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

because you are making a [censored] statement to the fish who has done nothing wrong in order to sway his decision into calling/folding/raising... i mean come on i think that is a pretty lame thing to do but maybe i am just diff from you guys.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villian is not ever ever ever ever pushing a flush that we beat, unless he is completely batshit insane or completely retarded. I still like making it 2kish, and yes I'm folding to a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain has "fishy" stats which leads me to believe he doesn't really think logically, and could really shove any flush for value or perhaps a straight. I think raising/folding a K high flush to this guy is pretty bad personally. I'd raise/call or shove or just call, leaning towards the first two for sure.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

but stupid chat like that is part of the game HU. but it is still stupid.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
because you are making a [censored] statement to the fish who has done nothing wrong in order to sway his decision into calling/folding/raising... i mean come on i think that is a pretty lame thing to do but maybe i am just diff from you guys.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am very much for beeing ethical at the poker table and hate all sorts of slowrolling and such but this is def not an unetichal move at all imo, agree that its stupid though and probably -EV.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

Why is it a lame thing to do? the man sat at the table, ran his stack up, and has the right to make a decision as to what OP's statement means. He can ignore it, read it and attach no significance, or interpret it somehow and then act accordingly. Please note that I'm not advocating typing in something stupid about a one card straight, but if you want to do this to a fish, go right ahead. It's poker, not the opera.

As far as the actual hand, raise to 2.2k. Q hi flush would be close, I might raise but would likely just call. J hi flush is just a call, always. against the player you describe, your K high flush is almost always good here.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

all you can eat baby!

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
shove, then type in "chop chop ?"

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villian is not ever ever ever ever pushing a flush that we beat, unless he is completely batshit insane or completely retarded. I still like making it 2kish, and yes I'm folding to a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain has "fishy" stats which leads me to believe he doesn't really think logically, and could really shove any flush for value or perhaps a straight. I think raising/folding a K high flush to this guy is pretty bad personally. I'd raise/call or shove or just call, leaning towards the first two for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to see a hand where someone 4 bet pushed a 7 high flush on the river 400BBs deep........I have yet to see it above $25NL. This guy is probably really bad, and doesn't think logically, but it sounds like he has some grasp of what he's doing, and he's not going to 4 bet shove the river here with worse.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villian is not ever ever ever ever pushing a flush that we beat, unless he is completely batshit insane or completely retarded. I still like making it 2kish, and yes I'm folding to a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain has "fishy" stats which leads me to believe he doesn't really think logically, and could really shove any flush for value or perhaps a straight. I think raising/folding a K high flush to this guy is pretty bad personally. I'd raise/call or shove or just call, leaning towards the first two for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to see a hand where someone 4 bet pushed a 7 high flush on the river 400BBs deep........I have yet to see it above $25NL. This guy is probably really bad, and doesn't think logically, but it sounds like he has some grasp of what he's doing, and he's not going to 4 bet shove the river here with worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any situation 400bbs deep like this is going to be relatively rare, I don't really think it's crazy at all for villain to shove a Q or J high flush here, especially if he went for a big c/r to begin with. A baby flush is probably unlikely to 4 bet us, agreed, but it's definitely possible. A lot of people view any flush on an unpaired board as the nuts. The point is that we're going to be getting great odds on calling a shove and villain could very easily shove a Q/J high flush here. I mean he's playing half of his hands for christ's sake, let's stop assuming he is trying to hand read let alone even capable of it.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

guys I was kidding about the chat because I really have no idea what to do here, I think I like this after thinking about it.

[ QUOTE ]
As far as the actual hand, raise to 2.2k. Q hi flush would be close, I might raise but would likely just call. J hi flush is just a call, always. against the player you describe, your K high flush is almost always good here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

interesting spot. do you think villain understands the ramifications of a stack that deep, or will he just stack off any flush to you because its a flush and he hates you?

i could certainly see shoving here against a fish, but also just calling. if you dont know how to respond to a shove because you dont know if he'll shove worse or not, i don't think a medium sized raise is a good plan.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

Results?

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

YOU ARE A HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPO AND THIS IS A BUFFET.

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

didnt want a small flush to fold... so like as crazy as it sounds i thought he could fold a decent one for 3k more... anyways he snap called river.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $5/$10 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $320.00
BB: $3,909.85
UTG: $1,060.00
CO: $1,684.00
Hero (BTN): $4,383.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $30.00</font>, SB folds, BB calls $20.00

Flop: ($65) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $45.00</font>, BB calls $45.00

Turn: ($155) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $95.00</font>, BB calls $95.00

River: ($345) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $265.00</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $1,040.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2,777.00</font>, BB calls $1,737.00

Pot Size: $5,899.00 ($3 Rake)

BB had K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a straight, Seven high) and LOST (-$2,947.00)
Hero had K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a flush, King high) and WON (+$2,949.00)

Re: VERY NICE!!! ..... HOW MUCH!?!? 400+ bb deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
YOU ARE A HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPO AND THIS IS A BUFFET.

[/ QUOTE ]

god i'm good.