Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

Anyone like these bluffs? Also, pf->river?

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $2/$4 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $138.00
BB: $410.00
UTG: $392.00
CO: $342.25
Hero (BTN): $1,160.60

Reads: <font color="blue">Villain is playing a snug 19.5/9.5 TAG game. Despite the decent stats however he has struck me as a weak player, especially because he didnt top off his stack, for instance.</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $16.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $48.00</font>, 2 folds, CO calls $32.00

Flop: ($102) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($102) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $85.00</font>, CO calls $85.00

River: ($272) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $210.00</font> (I'm putting him all in)

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $5/$10 Blinds - 2 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

BB: $1,006.00
Hero (SB): $1,112.00

Reads: <font color="blue">Early in the match, Villain is playing with HU stats of 52/50, so he's both loose and 3betting early and often.</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $30.00</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $100.00</font>, Hero calls $70.00

Flop: ($200) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $100.00</font>, Hero calls $100.00

Turn: ($400) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $300.00</font>, BB calls $300.00

River: ($1000) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $612.00</font> (it's a bit more then half pot to him)

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

1 works for me, 2 looks meh.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

bet flop in #1 please, don't like turn/river as played. not a big fan of #2 either sorry, people don't fold very often in hu 3-bet pots!

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

i really can't understand your flop check in #1, i'd bet this exactly 100% of the time, maybe you misclicked?

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

why threebet in hand 1?

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
1 works for me, 2 looks meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, I thought just the opposite.

Hand 1 I feel he may be too shallow to fold out a mid PP (which would seem to be a big part of his range). You represent JJ-KK very well with this line but stacks may just dictate a light lookup.

Hand 2 I like precisely because of this type of opponent. They will often play through the flop with anything and let postflop start at the turn so to speak. Great float instead of raise by the way on the flop.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 I like precisely because of this type of opponent. They will often play through the flop with anything and let postflop start at the turn so to speak. Great float instead of raise by the way on the flop.

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But even if "postflop starts on the turn" - villain called hero's turn bet. So i'm not sure he's on AK/AQ anymore - and based on his pf stats, I'd say he abhors folding.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

I'd like hand 2 more if villain wasn't so looooooose. Hand 1 is good vs a thinking player because he's going to assume you would fire with air on the flop here because well........ why would you ever check the flop with J/Q/K high in this spot? I think it's totally reasonable for you to show up with an ace here as well as JJ-KK given flop/turn/river action. I don't like it if he's stationy though.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

By the way, its not totally unreasonable for villain in hand#1 to have an ace himself.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

#2 worked, without a doubt.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

Bet the flop in hand one against tight-passive fish. Not really a fan of the reraise; this guy plays by the book (the hellmuth book) and has no idea postflop. He is never folding TT.

Hand two your pot/stack manipulation seems way off. You bet too much on the turn and he's either c/f or c/c no matter what you bet. If you think he has A-high then betting more will only look suspicious. How do you feel about a turn-push? It's even more suspicious but calling off you entire stack with no pair is hard. If not I like $250 better.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

I look at hand 2 like this...

He has J high always beat.
He will fold his A high hands almost always here given lines taken.
He has A high SO often.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

Haven't read anything but the OP, but anyways, hand 1 looks beyond horrible regardless of results IMO vs a nit with a laggy image like yours. I don't like hand two either but it's not as bad as hand one. I'm sure that hand one worked and hand two didn't or something like that because that's not what we would expect.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Haven't read anything but the OP, but anyways, hand 1 looks beyond horrible regardless of results IMO vs a nit with a laggy image like yours. I don't like hand two either but it's not as bad as hand one. I'm sure that hand one worked and hand two didn't or something like that because that's not what we would expect.

[/ QUOTE ]

i completely disagree

nits convince themselves to call the turn light vs LAGs, and then on the river they go "WTF UGH HE ALWAYS HAS THE NUTS" and fold

a 52/50 lagtard has the same thought process but calls

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]

i completely disagree

nits convince themselves to call the turn light vs LAGs, and then on the river they go "WTF UGH HE ALWAYS HAS THE NUTS" and fold


[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience you will never get a nit off JJ+ here getting 2.5-1.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
#2 worked, without a doubt.

[/ QUOTE ]
so #1 failed?

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

if i was called in hand 1, did he have 3 pair or a boat?
if i was called in hand 2, do i look like a fool vs an ace high hero call?

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

3 pr

yes, but i think he folded it

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
#2 worked, without a doubt.

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so #1 failed?

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No opinion [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

bleh hand 1. people seem to call me with JJ there..

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

they both look like bluffs.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

2- I expect villains to call down with as little as TT.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

I'm in the hand 2 camp though I could see u winning both.

I don't like the reraise pre in hand 1, but once in a while it's ok.

I'd like hand 1 better if u bet the flop. Once the second ace hits it's so much less likely that either of u have one that your chances of getting called by a pair below aa goes up. Then again I think you see 40% of flops at 6 max and I always seem to lose pots like these to the 40% guys calling any preflop raise with any ace, so I may pitch my pp to your river bet.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

honestly hand 1 is pretty bad
i hate pf
then i hate flop
then i slightly dislike turn
then i think river is pretty meh

hand 2:
looks ok

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

don't really like your turn bet sizing on either hand
if either worked i suspect the first but they both kinda suck

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

If you don't have an aggressive history I really like hand 1. The ace on the turn will make him much more likely to show up with 77-TT on the river, which I really can't see calling, and I think he will talk himself into a big fold with JJ sometimes, but I think qq-kk are probably calling. He'd probably 4-bet those preflop sometimes too, which works a lot in your favor of limiting his calling hand range. I'm sure he's calling any ace, but those lead/c'r turn a lot of the time.

on hand 2, do you bet the turn with 65/45? He is never calling with worse, and you don't get flat-called here very often IMO, except by 77/88 or maybe some weird middle 9 he decided to 3bet with. So betting the turn with a hand with showdown value + outs to boot doesn't make much sense here... if I were in his shoes that's what I would think, and I'd think you're representing basically a set, or possibly some weird 5xcc combo draw that floated the flop, both of which are pretty unlikely from a hand combination standpoint.

Also, the 7 isn't exactly great for you. it could have made him 2p or a set or a straight, since you said he's 3-betting so often. So like, given that you can float this flop with anything, and given that you will bet a float on the turn most of the time, and given the river came an irresistible bluffing card for someone who floated the flop and bluffed the turn, I don't really like this one. I think a 9 will be really tempted to call here, an overpair certainly will, and various 2p/sets/straights are in his range as well (though admittedly he would probably bet some of those on the river).

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
honestly hand 1 is pretty bad
i hate pf
then i hate flop
then i slightly dislike turn
then i think river is pretty meh

hand 2:
looks ok

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

also, hu bluffs in RR pots are pretty ridiculous to judge in a vacuum imo, so I agree that hand 2 looks fine if the conditions are right but who knows

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

I was just reading over the thread again, you all seriously think he check-calls the turn in hand 2 with just AK/AQ??? WTF? wouldn't he be better c/ring or betting those hands anyway?

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

hand 1 you are getting called down by 3 pair. hand 2 is fine.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

they both suck more than i thought they would when i opened this thread...

one is a great way to play a big hand because youre getting called by everything under the sun...

two is meh... i mean why did you decide to bluff the maniac? i think you get called by alot on the river... just make a hand and stack the guy playing 52/50... hes prob not good postflop if hes that bad pf... so hell call you too much.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

i aint no HU player, someone liking the bluff in hand 2, could you explain it to me please? Because I don't atm, but again I'm no HU player.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

after you float the flop in hand 2 and the turn is a club and after you fire out 300 on turn, is it a reasonable statement to say that you should be pushing this river practically all the time, regardless of which card comes

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
#2 worked, without a doubt.

[/ QUOTE ]

no way in hellll #2 worked

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

I'd bet the flop on hand 1 but as played i'd check the river. I'm also checking river in hand 2. You're probably too shallow to bluff.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

number 1 will work if opponent is on a bit of a cold run and is making folds more often than he usually does.
if he is on a hot streak or having a nightmare session and is semi-tilting/pissed off he will call.
(assuming he has mid pair), note obv you cant know how his other tables are going, so you just got to hope.

hand 2 is nearly impossible to read given the infinite hand range of your opponent. if you've seen him fold to your good hands, then make this play, otherwise be patient and get paid off with a good hand.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
honestly hand 1 is pretty bad
i hate pf
then i hate flop
then i slightly dislike turn
then i think river is pretty meh

hand 2:
looks ok

[/ QUOTE ]

Is flat calling IP the new 3-bet?

A few months ago people would say 3-bet to anything when you're IP, but now 3-betting here is horrible.

As a side questions, what hands would you think are ok to 3b here pre-flop? low suited connectors? Only premiums? Complete junk?

I can't understand how 3betting TJs here is horrible at all, so if anybody would like to elaborate why it would be a bad play I would appreciate it a lot!

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
honestly hand 1 is pretty bad
i hate pf
then i hate flop
then i slightly dislike turn
then i think river is pretty meh

hand 2:
looks ok

[/ QUOTE ]

Is flat calling IP the new 3-bet?

A few months ago people would say 3-bet to anything when you're IP, but now 3-betting here is horrible.

As a side questions, what hands would you think are ok to 3b here pre-flop? low suited connectors? Only premiums? Complete junk?

I can't understand how 3betting TJs here is horrible at all, so if anybody would like to elaborate why it would be a bad play I would appreciate it a lot!

[/ QUOTE ]


It depends on the type of villain.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

plzzz it isn't bad to 3-bet JTs IP.

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
#2 worked, without a doubt.

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no way in hellll #2 worked

[/ QUOTE ]
no way in hell either worked imo

Re: Fun with JTs, which bluff worked?
 

i like number 1, not number 2. i think that villain is c/c'ing with 9x or TT+ a lot of the time here. i would check the turn and bet the river. getting c/r'ed here would really suck.

1 looks good because he has a pp here a lot that he'll fold.

edit: i mean on hand 2 you should check the turn with the intention of bluffing river. as played i would check river.