Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

Played 2 orbits, but no real reads on villan

Blinds 1500/3000 ante 75

mp(72,000) makes it 6600

Hero(67,000) calls from button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

HU flop- A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Villan checks

whats your plan? What about the turn?

-LL

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

i think this is a very borderline float preflop, but this is the pot calling the kettle black because i float all the time in questionable places.

after he checks an ace high flop after you float that is just license to steal. bet 60-80% of the flop. you will take it down most of the time.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

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i think this is a very borderline float preflop, but this is the pot calling the kettle black because i float all the time in questionable places.

after he checks an ace high flop after you float that is just license to steal. bet 60-80% of the flop. you will take it down most of the time.

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Agree...But his check is defintly strange...Id be interested to see your opinion in the actual hand, But Ill wait for a few more responses
-LL

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

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i think this is a very borderline float preflop, but this is the pot calling the kettle black because i float all the time in questionable places.

after he checks an ace high flop after you float that is just license to steal. bet 60-80% of the flop. you will take it down most of the time.

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What's wrong with the PF call?


As for the play, I think he's dying to C/R us here, so give him the chance. Weak lead 6-7k, not too much or else he'll be able to shove. Then 3-bet all-in.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

What if his CR is a push?
-LL

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

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I think he's dying to C/R us here, so give him the chance. Weak lead 6-7k, not too much or else he'll be able to shove. Then 3-bet all-in.

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You're not getting better hands to fold that c/r us.

I bet 3/4pot on the flop and intend to get the rest in. I don't hate shoving, but based on reads (in this case none, but in general) bet in whatever manner gives us most FE.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

Then it's a pretty massive overbet and I think I'd feel comfortable ruling out a set here - or at least bumping down the frequency of it.

Which leads to me calling.

That being said, with the pot at ~16k, if we bet 8-10k as Brujita suggested, a reraise all-in would be correct with any of the hands in Villain's preflop range. That's why I like the weaker lead as it makes such a play from Villain awkward.

I don't know. I'm a sucker for draws and if it were me, I'd be getting my chips in here 150% of the time. I'm trying to be logical here though, and I think there is some value in 3betting all-in as opposed to simply calling. Maybe not though.

Would love to see some other responses.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

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I don't know. I'm a sucker for draws and if it were me, I'd be getting my chips in here 150% of the time. I'm trying to be logical here though.



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We're not in a comfortable spot (10bb), there's enough money in the pot, and it's a big enough draw where I'm fine getting called or calling.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

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I think he's dying to C/R us here, so give him the chance. Weak lead 6-7k, not too much or else he'll be able to shove. Then 3-bet all-in.

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You're not getting better hands to fold that c/r us.

I bet 3/4pot on the flop and intend to get the rest in. I don't hate shoving, but based on reads (in this case none, but in general) bet in whatever manner gives us most FE.

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Well, after our weak lead, suddenly Villain may decide to C/R hands he was simply going to C/C before.

Okay, thought popped into my head. What if Villain has KK here? Any chance of that after he checked the flop? I think KK would most definitely reraise a weak lead here, and then obv fold to a push.

Whatever, my mind is fried. I need to go to sleep. Bye.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

If we 3 bet a weak lead the opponent will likely be committed.

3/4 pot or shove usually gets KK to fold.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

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I don't know. I'm a sucker for draws and if it were me, I'd be getting my chips in here 150% of the time. I'm trying to be logical here though.



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We're not in a comfortable spot (10bb), there's enough money in the pot, and it's a big enough draw where I'm fine getting called or calling.

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Ehh, since I agree with A_J's analysis, I think I shove here on the flop. I am indifferent if I get called by A-rag or whatever. Picking up the pot right here isn't the worst option as villian may have a wierd re-draw.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

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I don't know. I'm a sucker for draws and if it were me, I'd be getting my chips in here 150% of the time. I'm trying to be logical here though.



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We're not in a comfortable spot (10bb), there's enough money in the pot, and it's a big enough draw where I'm fine getting called or calling.

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Ummm... Effective stacks are 20+BB.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

Obv it's my brain that's fried.

Ummmm, yea, I'm still betting 3/4.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

I don't think Villain would necessarily be committed after a reraise, but I could be wrong.

Lead 5k, get reraised to 15ishk, push 55k. I think we have SOME FE there, even if it's not much.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

How often do you see a bluff c/r from the PFR?

Bet 10kish, be happy getting it in.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

You don't need to bet huge but make a decent attempt at the pot-- something in the 8k range. Be happy getting all in no matter how it comes, even if you have to call a check raise push as he stands up and shoves over his stacks into the middle of the felt.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

I bet 9000, He CR pushes on me...
-LL

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

chances are really good he has qq or aa but even against those hands, eyeball math you have odds to call so its an easy call

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1758686
pokenum -h jh th - - qc qs -- ah qh 6s
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 6s Ah Qh
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Jh Th 344 34.75 646 65.25 0 0.00 0.347
Qs Qc 646 65.25 344 34.75 0 0.00 0.653

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

Is it wrong to check it to take a card? The villain's raise preflop and check on a flop that contains an Ace and a Queen is strange. Why not check here and take the free card? Why risk all your chips on flush/gut draw? The post above shows that you will win 35% of the time against a set of queens, so why put a lot of chips in hoping that you either steal the pot or catch?

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

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The post above shows that you will win 35% of the time against a set of queens, so why put a lot of chips in hoping that you either steal the pot or catch?

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Well he doesnt always have a set of queens here.
-LL

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

I think this is one of those hands, that with a huge draw, you have an opportunity to see two cards for relatively cheap, then make him make a tough call if you get there. I check behind here alot, because getting CR'd here is not good.

Nick

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

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The post above shows that you will win 35% of the time against a set of queens, so why put a lot of chips in hoping that you either steal the pot or catch?

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Well he doesnt always have a set of queens here.
-LL

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Yeah, I know that he won't always have a set here, and I never implied it. The statement went with my entire post. The check by the villain on this flop makes me think he is trying to check raise you, why give him the chance? Take the free card he's willing to give you and hopefully catch a nonheart king for the straight.

Of course, he could have total crap and a bet by you will get him to fold.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

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The post above shows that you will win 35% of the time against a set of queens, so why put a lot of chips in hoping that you either steal the pot or catch?

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Well he doesnt always have a set of queens here.
-LL

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Yeah, I know that he won't always have a set here, and I never implied it. The statement went with my entire post. The check by the villain on this flop makes me think he is trying to check raise you, why give him the chance? Take the free card he's willing to give you and hopefully catch a nonheart king for the straight.

Of course, he could have total crap and a bet by you will get him to fold.

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I agree, I was just saying that he doesnt always have a monster, not that you implied that he does, but you know. To be in honest in hindsight I still dont know what the best play is. If I bet and he raises me im almost willingly getting in as a dog, but if i check behind I miss a chance to take the pot if he would have folded or maybe called and checked the turn to me.

Results- I bet 9k, he pushes, and I call. He shows AQ and I hit a heart on the river. woot! Thank god I run good
thanks for the posts guys, any thought on his actual holdings? I guess he bets and I push on him anyway? Im not sure
-LL

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

If he checks here and is going to continue in the hand I see no way he doesn't have a set or top two. People slowplay hands they shouldn't. You bet too little on the flop, IMO, unless you wanted him to push. I either pot the flop or push the flop. Pushing is good when OOP and you're first to act with this hand, but in position I like potting it a lot better.

I'm starting to learn how important it is to put the last bet or raise into a hand, but this is a situation where it's fairly hard to do that.

Re: Big draw late in tourney...whats your line?
 

There seems to be a lack of understanding of position here. Use your position. Check behind on the flop. This way you lose the least if you miss your hand, and gain the most when you hit. He is giving you a free card. Take his gift.