Thin or too thin?
 

Villain is 50/22/1.5 and a donk. We have 100BB effective and i doubled him up 2 orbits earlier.

H has KK
2 folds, V calls, H raises to 90, 2 folds.

Flop: 5d2s7s
Villain c/c 170$

Turn: 4c
V c/c 380

River: 6h Pot is ~ 1300$ and ca 1250 behind
V checks, Hero?


I doubt he flopped a set or 2 pair on this flop, because he raised a flush AI with 30BB on flop.
He can show up with A7, here too.

Is this a easy check behind?

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

What's the river? The magic Ace?

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

check

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

Against very bad players I bet the river again, they will just put you on AK and make a "tough" call with any pair.

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

with the spades missing i really think you should shove. he'll think, "you don't have a 3 or 8, so why are you pushing the river? busted flush! i call."

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

i think you gotta shove this.

he has a pair almost everytime here and only one of them is 88...i think it's good to have KK in your range here at any rate

and by shove i mean vbet i didnt look at stack sizes

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

I think I'm checking behind here, but it's real close and I don't mind a shove.

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

nah, I really think you got to check here...

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

stick it in

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

I would check. Considering that you have already doubled him up, I would think even donkeys are not going to call this big bet with A7 or something, since they expect you to have it this time. And since he limped it is very hard for him to have many combos of one pair hands that can call this bet. Also, that river card makes a few two pair hands that will never fold. I actually prefer a bet here against a better player as a two way bet, since they might fold two pair and sometimes call with one pair (if they are using some randomization to figure out calling frequencies in this spot).

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

Ok, it`s thin between checking and betting.

Would you prefer a shove for 1250 inti 13oo, or 700?

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

I shove this allllll day vs this guy, and I don't think it's all that close.

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

If he has a 3 or an 8 he probably bets the river often, fearing you might check behind so I think they are not that likely. I'd be more concerned about him showing up with 76s or 54s for a turned 2pair.
I think he pays you off with worse often enough to justify a shove here.

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

i check here

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'm checking behind here, but it's real close and I don't mind a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I shove this allllll day vs this guy, and I don't think it's close at all

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

Villain prob. would check and call most rivered twopairs and sets but would check and fold alot of onepair hands... guesstimate and do some math??

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

ai

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

Seems like a pretty easy check. We're behind ANY sc calling on the flop, and almost any one-gapper too. And there's a HUGE amount of these combos. He's pretty aggro preflop so we can't put him on any PP (at least not the QQ-99 we're hoping for).

We're hoping he'll call down with a crappy TP on a 4 straight board? Of which there's not many combos, 97s, A7...

I realise he's more likely to bet the combos we're behind on the river, but still.

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

Wow wtf, recallme posted a semi-interesting hand that generates serious responses?!

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I shove this allllll day vs this guy, and I don't think it's close at all

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

Why is shove>700-800? I think he would very often fold some TP´ish hands to a shove, but call the smaller bet.
Is Villain even a bad one really thinking i am bluffing here again?

Any reasons for shove> bet 700-800?

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

I would check. And I think if you are going to bet I'd bet like $500.

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

If we're making any bet that isn't a shove, we're calling all-in from him I assume, right?

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

I would be interested in reading comments that address the facts that Hero appears to be seated to the immediate left of Villian and Villian is a donk. If you are to the immediate left of a medium-stacked donk, doesn't that add value to a check? My read of the comments is that there is rough consenus that shoving ai is a positive EV play, but there is debate about whether it is a large or small positive EV. If Hero has a donk to his immediate right (or one over to his right), shouldn't he be looking for high positive EV opportunities for all of his stack and doesn't that tip the balance to a check behind?

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

Wtf?
I think we fold to a c/r. I just doubt that this Villain is able to make a c/r bluff in this spot ( more likely he just shoves river.

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

I shove or check behind. A bet/fold line here on the river seems kind of ridiculous

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

chizeck

Re: Thin or too thin?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I shove or check behind. A bet/fold line here on the river seems kind of ridiculous

[/ QUOTE ]

that's stupid, guys like this aren't good enough to CR bluff. if i bet it would be like half the pot, i guess i can see a shove ONLY if meta dictated it, but if you have NOT played for stacks with this guy before, i think you should just check and feel triumphant when he turns over his two pair.

it's one of those spots where vs a donk you can make a bet that not only increases your value on the hand when ahead but limits how much you lose on the hand when you're behind and he value slowplays two pair on the river.

usually, you're going to maximization in the form of shoving for value but when it's unclear how often you're ahead and hard for villian to call worse, i make tons of tweener bets which are totally fine when meta is irrelevant vs bad palyers.