25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

POKERSTARS GAME #12286515029: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($25/$50) - 2007/09/26 - 18:15:18 (ET)
Table 'Hispania' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: ADZ124 ($5748 in chips)
Seat 2: idoubleL ($10136 in chips)
Seat 3: sweetluvin7 ($9612 in chips)
Seat 4: $tinger 88 ($10564 in chips)
Seat 5: DaMadPotter ($5150 in chips)
Seat 6: yojje ($12122 in chips)
ADZ124: posts small blind $25
idoubleL: posts big blind $50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to $tinger 88 [Ah 8h]
sweetluvin7: calls $50
$tinger 88: raises $150 to $200
DaMadPotter: folds
yojje: folds
ADZ124: folds
idoubleL: folds
sweetluvin7: calls $150
*** FLOP *** [Ac 4s 6d]
sweetluvin7: checks
$tinger 88: checks
*** TURN *** [Ac 4s 6d] [8s]
sweetluvin7: checks
$tinger 88: bets $350
sweetluvin7: raises $550 to $900
$tinger 88: calls $550
*** RIVER *** [Ac 4s 6d 8s] [3h]
sweetluvin7: bets $1050 (into about 2200)

I'm assuming nobody's folding, call or raise and why?

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

I think his range is reallllly polarized here, and I think shoving would be a big mistake.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think his range is reallllly polarized here, and I think shoving would be a big mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding obv. out the question,as to shoving I agree with Ansky
Call [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

i would call here all day unless we had some crazy history/meta stuff going on.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

I can also raise without shoving (he has 7500ish left and I cover)

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

call

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

Man, sweetluvin is the biggest station ever...I think I'd raise to like 2800 since his river bet is so small and he can have crappy little two pairs here all day. If he had bet like 1500 or more I would just call.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

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I can also raise without shoving (he has 7500ish left and I cover)

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baring this in mind noone think theres any value in a raise to 3k?

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

[ QUOTE ]
Man, sweetluvin is the biggest station ever...I think I'd raise to like 2800 since his river bet is so small and he can have crappy little two pairs here all day. If he had bet like 1500 or more I would just call.

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Don't know villain at all - but I like this.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

i would bet the flop...as checked through on the flop, on the turn i would definitely 3 bet to 2800-3000ish. on the river, i would raise to 3k and probably call a shove. You played this hand too passive for my taste

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

raise to 3k and call a shove? wow.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

raise, fold to a shove though

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

not raising here is a sin - i'd make it 3k - 3500

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

wait oh [censored] he limped preflop, hmm

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

do u know anything about his limping range?

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

he had limped UTG several times throughout the session but I hadn't seen him show down anything

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

raise, there is so much value from worse two pair hands

as to whether or not you call a shove i would say that is really player dependent and i dont know sweetluvin

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

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do u know anything about his limping range?

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A lot of random suited connectors and [censored]

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

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think I'd raise to like 2800 since his river bet is so small and he can have crappy little two pairs here all day. If he had bet like 1500 or more I would just call.

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its really weird how similar we think, hmmmmm........

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

raise/fold a station, flat call a trickier opponent.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

given description, I'm in the raise to 2800-3k/fold to shove camp. If he hadn't been limping UTG a lot I would just call here I think though.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

i haven't played him in awhile but unless you have reason to think he can be tricky with his bet sizing here, you have to raise

even if he can get tricky, he's not putting you on two pair and could be playing worse two pair like this

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

personally, i'm allin here. your dynamic with sweet might dictate a smaller raise. calling is just wrong, i can't see him ever playing a better hand like this. if he has a true monster (i.e. any hand that beats you) he's got to 3bet the turn or c/r the river in order to give himself as good a shot as possible at stacking your two pair hands.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

[ QUOTE ]
personally, i'm allin here. your dynamic with sweet might dictate a smaller raise. calling is just wrong, i can't see him ever playing a better hand like this. if he has a true monster (i.e. any hand that beats you) he's got to 3bet the turn or c/r the river in order to give himself as good a shot as possible at stacking your two pair hands.

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You realize sweet check raised the turn?

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

hmm.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus, people really think sweet calls with 86 or worse here? Wow.. I'd like to see this thread reversed and posted from sweet's side holding 64 against a river raise.. would people claim stinger could have AQ? Or would they advocate a call because stinger would bluff-raise the river often?

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Have you played with sweetluvin? As far as I can tell, he looks at his hands in a vacuum. With two pair, he beats lower two pair, any one-pair hand, high card, as well as bluffs. "Two pair is a rather strong holding," he will think to himself as he calls.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
personally, i'm allin here. your dynamic with sweet might dictate a smaller raise. calling is just wrong, i can't see him ever playing a better hand like this. if he has a true monster (i.e. any hand that beats you) he's got to 3bet the turn or c/r the river in order to give himself as good a shot as possible at stacking your two pair hands.

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You realize sweet check raised the turn?

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oops, no i didn't. i read the action as sweet leads turn, OP raises, sweet calls and donks river. in the actual hand i think i 3bet the turn and call the 4bet or call down.

edit: i've edited this post a bunch of times, here's what i think i think [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

3bet the turn to about 2300-2600 and get it in most of the time. if you flat the turn, raise river to 2500-3500ish.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

I also like a river raise here... 3K seems good.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

Don't you guys think that his limp call range (as opposed to simply his open limp range) is way more likely to include/is more heavily weighted toward small pairs rather than suited two gappers?

I'm not saying don't raise, but calling doesn't seem as criminal to me as it seems to to most others....?

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

Hmm well he call with a smaller two pair if you raise? And is worth outweighing the 57's you run into? I feel like more often than not he's NOT calling with a worse two pair if you raise this river but maybe he's more liberal than i remember. I prolly just call. You could do a minraise/fold to push strategy though. That might not be bad.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

Hmm with the PF action I am not in love with A8 anymore and even tho I have never played with Sweetluvin7 as you guys describe him he seems rather loose with his calling range so calling seems out of question if he is not overly tricky. I mean bluffing on that river seems suicide imho so we can discount bluffs a lot, shoving worse 2pairs for value is bad as well so it leaves us mainly with hands that have us beat thus raise/folding seems quite good. I like a big strong river raise (3,2-3,5k ish) and a fold afterwards. We discourage him from making a move, look very strong and have about 6k behind. I'm up for a 3k or smaller raise if he is not making moves at all but might fold out worse hands to a bigger raise, as I said I have zero history so I cannot give a too accurate analysis.
I don't see many suited connectors he would limp call UTG any clue if he could limp As6s, As3s, 52s, 57s? I mean if all those hands are in that range plus other 2pairs then I raise, if he only limp/calls with pocketpairs or higher suited connectors then I think raising the river is - even tho it might occure weird - spewy. Because there are only sets that will give us action (44, 66, 88). Imho we really need a good idea of his range to make a call > raise.

Re: 25/50 River Spot vs sweetluvin
 

i make it 2650 on the river.