Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

Villain: 20/15/3/1500 hands. Very solid reg, surprised to see he is only just in the green over my sample on him. Definitely a thinking player.

Firstly, the table is full of fish and villain is the only opponent here I fear. Is there ever a case for just not bothering here at all? lol, probably not, but I said to myself afterward, "Why the hell tangle with the only decent player at the table??". Losing big pots to the only reg at the table in a non-nut situation is sinful IMO, so I am kinda torn on this question and it definitely influenced my post flop passivity.

Second, general comments on everything else please. I absolutely hate my line, but I just can't see a turn/river move that doesn't look like spew.

And yes, I considered calling river.


Thanks.

............................

Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop | <font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($51.00)
SB Hero ($50.25)
BB ($45.15)
UTG ($62.65)
UTG+1 <font color="#C00000">UTG+1 ($51.50)</font>

Preflop: Hero is in the SB with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6.75, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $5.25.

Flop (14.50) T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero bets $12.00, UTG+1 calls $12.00.

Turn (38.50) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

River (38.50) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $18.00, 1 fold

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

standard, you're not folding out whatever he has anyways

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

I suck in these spots, but I think I take this same line. I don't think you can get him to fold after the flop. You told him you were going to play for stacks and he called anyway. If he's a thinking opponent he's not doing that without a hand that he's willing to felt. It's a weird line, but obviously don't call the river best you're getting is a chop and that's probably unlikely. Weird spot though interested to hear what others think.

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

Standard, except why bet so much on the flop?

You could just c/f the flop as well, especially given your worries about playing a big pot vs the only other decent player

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

I'll c-bet about 90% of the flop I see, but this is one where I'll probably pass.

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

He most often has a pair here and from these most often TT-QQ, so you're probably beat like 90% of the time. Also if he's decent his $18 on the river looks like he's trying to sell you something, which you'd buy with an overpair UI.

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll c-bet about 90% of the flop I see, but this is one where I'll probably pass.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm... after representing such a strong hand and getting a call I think you have to c-bet here always, because thats the line AA would take. If he calls, ok, you are beat. But you won't win the hand at showdown. I think he has QQ/JJ here alot (and yes, i might would fire another barrel on the turn sometimes).

I do not think he has any kind of a drawing hand.

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

Either FPS or your read is off.

You don't think that a thinking player would cold call suited connectors in UTG, call pot on the flop and bluff on the river, do you? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

yeah standard this is always QQ JJ or maybe 99
i prob dont c-bet but dont hate it.

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

i'm checking this flop most of the time, and not just becaue he called your cbet. if he checks behind, then i'll bet any turn.

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm checking this flop most of the time, and not just becaue he called your cbet. if he checks behind, then i'll bet any turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this line is solid, I should use this more myself vs certain opponents, would you c/c sometimes on the flop or is it always c/f?

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

only thing I hate about not c-betting is it kind of turns your hand face up ie you have AK or TT and thats about it. unless you check here with AA KK.

but c-bet gets called buy alot of his range so just kind of a crappy spot.

FWIW if you check flop to me im always betting though cause there are so few strong hands you can be doing this with.

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

I think the cbet is fine

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

yeah checking turns our hand face up but most of our opponents suck at hand reading. this flop sucks though. they're not folding to a cbet on this flop enough times to make a cbet profitable. if you check and he checks behind, then you can reduce probability that he has a made hand/good draw. so, if turn is a blank, makes the draw, or brings an A or K (so basically, most of the deck), then your turn bet has a better chance of him folding.

i might be wrong here and can be convinced otherwise.

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

It really depends what you think his preflop calling range I guess. If you think it's squarely QQ+, AK then it's a clear check.

If you think it's wider then I don't mind a cbet.

After thinking about this hand, it's probably a good check.

Re: Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain
 

Thanks for replies.

If villain has TT-QQ, is his preflop call wrong/bad? What does a good player do with TT-QQ here?

And I see the argument for not cb, but I don't think I agree heads-up. We would never chk AA/KK/QQ, and a strong cb might just occasionally fold out a pair/AK always. And I think a chk is just telling villain our hand.

That having been said, I think the concensus here is chk, so I'll definitely take that away from this thread.

And to the poster who asked about the cb size, I wanted it to look like a big hand that was scared of the 2 diamonds. Kind of an attempt to reinforce the notion I have AA/KK. Also Miller/Sklansey's concept "when in doubt about a bet/bet-size, bet a bit too much rather than a bit too little".