Shove turn or take the free card?
 

very agressive table, lots of 3-bets at this moment.
AA and AK are obviously in vilain's range and he's not folding them. I think that QQ, JJ and AQ are at least in his range too.
Do you bet turn or take the free card?

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $638.40
Hero (MP): $394
CO: $214.10
BTN: $218
SB: $162
BB: $488

Pre-Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $12</font>, 3 folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $45</font>, Hero calls $33

Flop: ($92) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $70</font>, Hero calls $70

Turn: ($232) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $279 and is All-In</font>?

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

bet turn is horrible imho. Fist of you are dead to AK AA KK KQ . Even when he is holding QQ AQ etc you have some bluff potential on the river if you miss. Imho bet turn is pure spew.

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

If he's been 3-betting you a ton and his range is wide I'd just shove flop.

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

why not shove the perfect flop?

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

not very smart imho since it is stated that alot of 3betting going on so BB can easily assume that buttons calling raise is very wide in position which could lead to quite a few calls . When that happens shoving flop is obvious horrible ev wise

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

WTF, u think everything that involves a raise is horrible. you must be the most passive player on earth.

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

why attack me personally ? Can you at least try to make an argument instead of just insulting me. Also i am not a passive player but blind aggression without a reason is still not any good.

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

go back and read the OP and pay attention to the game dynamics description. if you can't figure it out i'm not gonna throw you a bone.

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

so please do that then. curious to hear ur thoughts

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

[ QUOTE ]
why attack me personally ? Can you at least try to make an argument instead of just insulting me. Also i am not a passive player but blind aggression without a reason is still not any good.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP shouldn't be calling preflop unless the villain is 3 betting with a wide range, thus cbetting this flop with a range wider than AK AA KK etc.

If he's not, we're calling preflop without getting implied odds with a blah hand. If you flop big with it against the villains wide range, a shove on the flop is somewhat standard...

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

Actually, after shoving i thought that it was a pretty bad move, i'm not representing anything but a flush draw. Even QQ or JJ might call here once in a while.
Either shove flop, but i think i'm being looked pretty lightly or take the free card an advise on the river, I'm not sure about which route is better.
I wanted to know how bad you think it was...

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

I agree with you a 100% that as described his range is wide but imho the quesion is how light will he call here or turnbet if he folds everything but AA KK AK the shove could be right. You agree that when he calls light checking behind is the much better play ?

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

I'd just raise the flop and get it in. As played I'd def jam the turn.

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

Could you please just give a short reasoning why you would do that please ?

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

shoving flop folds out a good % of his 3betting range - and yes shove

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

If you think his range is too strong on this type of flop to making shoving a profitable play, then you probably should have folded to the 3b preflop.

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

i prefer jamming the flop, but having called the flop, i would jam the turn since it's hard for the majority of villain's range to call you, giving you good fold equity.

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

I hate this. I bet turn for $155 or so and call a shove. You could once in a while take the free card; just mix in up. In this situation, I bet/call $155 (it looks much stronger than just [censored] pushing in when checked to...)

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

Jamming the turn is fine. He folds a lot of [censored] that beats us, and our equity never sucks.

Re: Shove turn or take the free card?
 

definitely get it in on the flop.