LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

With all the panic over the steamroller/greycat/doubledragon alleged cheating scandal I wanted to give this statement its own thread.

I've already answered this a few times in various threads, yet links to the ITH article continue popping up in every thread I read. Because of that I'm creating this thread, please link to it every time you see someone post about the ITH artice.

Ok, for the record at this point I am still unsure if I was cheated in the early AM heads up match with Mark well over a year ago. The facts in the article are however true. Mark played with amazing accuracy according to my holdings every single hand after he sat out and came back. The strangest hand that I remember was the following. I had the button with K9h. Preflop he raised, I 3bet with my K9h, and he capped. The flop was K99 and he just open folded. To this day I can't think of a single hand he could have, nor a reason why he would do that.

At this point if I was cheated or not is really irrelevant. Perhaps I was just angry at losing such a large sum which at the time was more than just a micro percentage of my bankroll. I've always thought it was a terrible prop for Mark to play those big games anyway. Afterall if he wins tons then it's rigged for him, if he loses then he loses his money and has to deal with all the trash talking that goes along with it. I don't play much live poker other than some wsop events so I haven't had a chance to really meet Mark, but I would actually like to meet him at some point and apologize to him at least for blatantly accusing him of cheating without a lot more concrete proof other than a few dozen hands played with him. At this point I'm chalking it up to me making a poor overall decision even though it might have been good table selection by playing him. Afterall he may not be a popular person in the poker world but he still is a professional player and should be given some respect for that.

As I said before and I'll say again in this thread... Absolute Poker and UltimateBet have earned my complete trust despite the Seif situation. I have played at these rooms almost every single day for the last two years and have had very good success at both sites. I have NO doubt in my mind that the current issue at hand has "Absolutely" ZERO to do with the management of AP. While it might be true that these new accounts have somehow hacked into the AP system through the brand new and probably relatively untested software version, I don't believe this has anything to do with AP Management and is also completely unrelated to my hu with Seif. I will still continue to play everyday at AP and UB.

Yay my first 2p2 thread, only took me 8 years of playing online poker to accomplish that.

Mike
stuckinpgh

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

Hey Stuckin,

why are you so sure that Seif isn't involved, when you say yourself that

'I am still unsure if I was cheated in the early AM heads up match with Mark well over a year ago.'

Also, I asked you about 9 months ago in AP chat whether you could give me any info on that session, as I had experienced a similar thing with Seif, and you said you weren't willing to discuss it in public, and didn't want to do so over AIM. Why?

Thanks,

D

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

Reportedly what I've heard through some pro playing friends that also are friends with Mark, Seif has profited in the 8 figure range so far with AP. Why would he want to bust all his high limit players with such crazy antics that obv would end up on 2p2. Is a few hundred k worth millions in lost rake when the world thinks his site is rigged?

Also if I'm not mistaken all this mess came post AP software update. If Seif was involved with the superaccount he would have gotten me and others well before this IMO.

I honestly have no idea who you are Dean, and don't recall anyone asking me about that in the big AP games. PM me to chat.

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

I think a reasonable explanation is that someone at AP has had this ability to read hole cards for a long time, and used it sparingly and/or just for kicks. Until a few days ago when someone decided to go crazy with it.

Also according to Seif, he's the biggest loser on AP. I think most people's data on him confirms this right?

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

U dont know if the 8 figure thing is true, and if he's really down 2 mil on the site, then add in taxes, live losses, pit gambling, pride, degeneracy, dislike of opponents etc. and it's really not impossible he would cheat.

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

I'm pretty sure he meant that mark was up 8 figures because of his business relationship to the site (and not his play) ?

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

Stuckin, I noticed you playing a lot of 3/6 tables today. Does this have anything to do with the proposed cheating on the site? If so, why not just play high limits on other sites?

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

found this guy a mark at the higher games....

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

WTF is your agenda? I agree with you on a lot of points: the whole Seif thing posted in February of 2006 is very suspect and there is no proof of anything. It's entirely possible that you just ran extremely bad for a short period of time. And all of the people going around connecting Mark Seif's name to this cheating scandal are being very irresponsible even if that turns out to be true.

However, to assert that AP has gained your full trust is a joke. You are either an ostrich with head fully implanted in sand or you have an agenda (hint: $$$) by posting that you support AP blah blah and will continue to play there.

Again, I totally understand why you would want to separate the previous incident with Seif from this new and very obvious cheating scandal, but I also believe that playing online poker successfully for eight years likely makes you a non-idiot and only a non-idiot or somebody with a financial interest would continue to fully support AP.

-Michael

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

Stuckin I too would like to know why you are going out of your way to speak up in praise of AP/UB? It seems that you had a highly suspicious session against Seif, and that there isn't enough evidence to accuse him of anything for sure..........but that doesn't mean you should come out as vehemently in favor of him as you have here.

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stuckin I too would like to know why you are going out of your way to speak up in praise of AP/UB? It seems that you had a highly suspicious session against Seif, and that there isn't enough evidence to accuse him of anything for sure..........but that doesn't mean you should come out as vehemently in favor of him as you have here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't call it going out of his way, necessarily, because I did make that other thread in this forum to bring him out of 'hiding' and was hoping he'd make a thread detailing the occurrences.

Besides that, yes, everything else is ridiculous.

I don't see how he can make a thread verifying the events, verifying his friend's (ICFISHIES) story and the shadiness of that night with Seif, offer up NO NEW information, and then come to a new conclusion that everything is on the up and up.




To Stuckinpgh, just a LITTLE something about what else went down around that time to restore your trust would greatly help out everybody here.

ICFishies states that the both of you (correct me if i'm wrong) withdrew your funds after the incident and were incredibly freaked out. SOMETHING must've happened to make you change your stance and the people would love to hear it, even if they end up not agreeing with your reasoning.

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

They offered him a boomswitch account

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]
They offered him a boomswitch account

[/ QUOTE ]

As funny as that sounds, something along those lines seems like the truth.

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

I don't believe this. Last time I "came out of hiding" and posted about something people saw that I was from Pittsburgh and started accusing me of being involved with the Full Tilt nl bot guy just because he lives within a 70 mile radius of me. As if I couldn't be any of the 700,000 other people that live in the Pittsburgh area. Since I played online poker and was from Pittsburgh I had to be involved. Now I have a blessed account? Give me a freaking break.

Look, I don't post on this forum because I have a very full life outside of online poker. I'm married and have two very young children, which takes up a ton of my time on a daily basis. I also don't post here because sometimes this site is littered with conspiracy theorists to the extreme. Now because I say I think AP management is on the up and up I'm now getting paid off?

The truth is that if AP were out to cheat me they would have done it by now. I had a few month long chat battle with Mark Seif where he called me everything from a punk to weak to pathetic. Even if HE cheated me, which again I will never be able to prove, that doesn't mean that any of the other AP higher ups knew anything about it. Meanwhile they've cashed out hundreds of thousands of dollars for me getting checks to my mailbox in most of the time less than a week, are available 24/7 via phone when I need something from them, and bring in the biggest donks I've ever seen. THAT is why I support them, and that is why I trust them (as much as you can trust an online poker room anymore) with cash in my AP and UB accounts. Trust me, the day they close my accounts and confiscate my funds is the day I do a 180, but honestly how can I complain when everything has always been smooth otherwise. I told you in the first post that I will never play Seif hu again, but again I admit it wasn't smart to play a site owner hu anyway just in case a superuser account does exist.

What am I trying to accomplish? I'm simply trying to say that let's not all get up in AP's face and accuse them of the worst. What we SHOULD get from them is an investigation and an explanation of what's going on and what happened. Also if AP finds that these accounts are cheaters, they should reimburse all the high limit players that the cheaters have taken money from... a few I've heard in excess of 50k+. My point was simply not to tie the greycat scandal into my situation from long ago. I don't see any connection between the two and I see no reason to assume automatically that it's an inside job. If we somehow prove that wrong, I'll be the first one to say my read was off.

About the 3/6... if you see anything below 30/60 it's my wife playing. I'm teaching her limit poker.

StretchMcGee... I'm glad you think I'm a mark. I have 1246 hands on you... you're losing at 7bb/100 so far.

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]

StretchMcGee... I'm glad you think I'm a mark. I have 1246 hands on you... you're losing at 7bb/100 so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

StretchMcGee... I'm glad you think I'm a mark. I have 1246 hands on you... you're losing at 7bb/100 so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Stuck, I think he was referring to graycat

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

StretchMcGee... I'm glad you think I'm a mark. I have 1246 hands on you... you're losing at 7bb/100 so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Stuck, I think he was referring to graycat

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Sorry Stretch

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They offered him a boomswitch account

[/ QUOTE ]

As funny as that sounds, something along those lines seems like the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

All, Mike is probably one of the more reputable dudes online, he's been with internet poker since it's inception and would be the least likely person I would ever suspect to do anything to jeopardize the future of online poker...basically CC that innuendo is really out of line.

-Matt

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

OP, so basically somehow AP/Seif might have cheated you. But it's still +ev for you to have them around. Fair enough.

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They offered him a boomswitch account

[/ QUOTE ]

As funny as that sounds, something along those lines seems like the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

All, Mike is probably one of the more reputable dudes online, he's been with internet poker since it's inception and would be the least likely person I would ever suspect to do anything to jeopardize the future of online poker...basically CC that innuendo is really out of line.

-Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

My apologies all around, it was 90% joke. I forgot I wasn't in BBV. This is why I wanted to start this thread and shine some light on it, but not take part. I was afraid I might have something taken the wrong way, which I did. Egg on my face.

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

stuckinpgh,

Fwiw, I don't expect you to remember (seeing as I didn't remember your exact name and match you to the BOT thread) but I was one of the <1% trying to defend the alleged botters. I appreciate you writing that and please remember this is not the ZOO, you will get more than a fair shake in a sensible strat forum.

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

stuck

I'm a 1bb winner, but how could you possibly think I was talking about you?

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

StretchMcGee... I'm glad you think I'm a mark. I have 1246 hands on you... you're losing at 7bb/100 so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Stuck, I think he was referring to graycat

[/ QUOTE ]

And maybe Stuck was also referring to his "GRAYCAT" account??? hmmmmm Interesting

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

Mark responds here. http://www.bluffmagazine.com/blog/bl...0&bcatid=4

Click on the view comments.

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Mark responds here. http://www.bluffmagazine.com/blog/bl...0&bcatid=4

Click on the view comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it taken down?

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mark responds here. http://www.bluffmagazine.com/blog/bl...0&bcatid=4

Click on the view comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it taken down?

[/ QUOTE ]

look in the comments

Re: LISTEN (Relating to Absolute Cheating Threads)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mark responds here. http://www.bluffmagazine.com/blog/bl...0&bcatid=4

Click on the view comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it taken down?

[/ QUOTE ]

look in the comments

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops, reading comprehension ftw