Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

Villain is 35/14/4.25 over 152 hands. My image is pretty solid and we have not tangoed yet as far as I can remember.


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $67.45
UTG+1: $77
MP1: $36.40
MP2: $198.95
MP3: $110.90
Hero: $218.65
Button: $64.50
SB: $174.15
BB: $102.70

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises to $3</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $12</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises to $38</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($77.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">MP2 bets $30</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($137.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">MP2 bets $33</font>, Hero calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($203.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">MP2 bets $35</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $273.5

Haupt_234

Re: Slowrolling AA DEEP .50/1
 

slowplaying?

Re: Slowrolling AA DEEP .50/1
 

I don't get it at all. AT LEAST raise the turn to 120 or so.

Re: Slowrolling AA DEEP .50/1
 

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I don't get it at all. AT LEAST raise the turn to 120 or so.


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What are you putting him on?

Haupt_234

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

kinda looks like he has kk pf and he bet the hand like he's scared so I'd just call down too.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

This sounds kinda nuts, but this is a slightly ahead/way behind situation big time. I might fold the flop. Not sure though; tough hand.

Re: Slowrolling AA DEEP .50/1
 

If he has KK, a lot of players would fold to a raise with that board and your preflop reraise.

If he doesn't have KK, you are probably beat. So calling seems to be the best option.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

Looks fine. If you're just going to call the re-raise preflop, I don't see any other way to play post-flop on this board. I'm assuming you'll see KK a lot, though.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

this really looks like KK, i might value minraise the river

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

When AA gets 3-bet... you 4 bet.

Seeing as you didn't, and seeing as how you LITERALLY caught the worst flop possible.... fold. AK/QQ/JJ/TT are all the hands that beat you... KK is the one that doesn't. Sure, he can have KK here.... but are you going to soak up bets on every street to find out?

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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When AA gets 3-bet... you 4 bet.

Seeing as you didn't, and seeing as how you LITERALLY caught the worst flop possible.... fold. AK/QQ/JJ/TT are all the hands that beat you... KK is the one that doesn't. Sure, he can have KK here.... but are you going to soak up bets on every street to find out?

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He not only CAN have KK, but it's basically the most likely hand in his range, so yeah...soaking up those weakish bets is fine. Also folding flop for like less than 1/2 pot when you've got 6 outs against top set (and you're ahead a lot) is pretty bad.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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When AA gets 3-bet... you 4 bet.

Seeing as you didn't, and seeing as how you LITERALLY caught the worst flop possible.... fold. AK/QQ/JJ/TT are all the hands that beat you... KK is the one that doesn't. Sure, he can have KK here.... but are you going to soak up bets on every street to find out?

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He not only CAN have KK, but it's basically the most likely hand in his range

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Why? Sure, you know that after seeing him bet 1/4 pot on the turn, the like 1/10000 pot on the river. I'm talking about the flop after the preflop action when the way that it did. Remember, the T is a scare card for AK. Hero can esily have QQ/JJ/TT here.

If you are EVER folding AA after the preflop action... this is where you do it. And it's where you do it happily.

You are horribly, horribly, mistaken in saying that KK is like the only hand he can have.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

Once you get 4bet preflop just shove, like every single time.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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You are horribly, horribly, mistaken in saying that KK is like the only hand he can have.

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He didn't say that at all.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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When AA gets 3-bet... you 4 bet.

Seeing as you didn't, and seeing as how you LITERALLY caught the worst flop possible.... fold. AK/QQ/JJ/TT are all the hands that beat you... KK is the one that doesn't. Sure, he can have KK here.... but are you going to soak up bets on every street to find out?

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He not only CAN have KK, but it's basically the most likely hand in his range

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Why? Sure, you know that after seeing him bet 1/4 pot on the turn, the like 1/10000 pot on the river. I'm talking about the flop after the preflop action when the way that it did. Remember, the T is a scare card for AK. Hero can esily have QQ/JJ/TT here.

If you are EVER folding AA after the preflop action... this is where you do it. And it's where you do it happily.

You are horribly, horribly, mistaken in saying that KK is like the only hand he can have.

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I didn't say it's the only hand he could have, just that it's def the most likely. QQ-TT/AK don't always 4bet, and KK generally does. Like if you'd figure a percent for each it would look something like KK 50%, QQ 20%, AK 20%, etc.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

All of that is true, but you can make a lot more combinations with AK/QQ/JJ than you can with KK. Saying KK is the most likely hand in is range doesn't mean much here because it's the flop where you have to make the decision. By cold-calling you basically tell him exactly what you have and he can play perfectly against you. You can't value bet later streets and you are much more likely to be facing half-pot to pot bets the entire way, thinking to yourself "KK makes the most sense here. He 4 bet me preflop and with the QJT out there and two As in my hand, make his other hands less likely."

Remember the fact that we are cold calling his 4 bet. What does that tell villain about our hand? That we have atc? No. We have TT-AA, and AK thrown in. Villain will just be WAY often too scared to bet this flop for fear of what WE have to make our call of HIS bet profitable.

The fact that he bets this flop must be taken into consderation when you are making statements of the likelihood of him having KK.

That said... push preflop, dammit.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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push preflop, dammit.


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Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

how can you NOT shove preflop

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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how can you NOT shove preflop

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b/c shoving pf = throwing away money

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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how can you NOT shove preflop

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b/c shoving pf = throwing away money

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This is almost never the case with AA.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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how can you NOT shove preflop

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b/c shoving pf = making ez money

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fyp...

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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how can you NOT shove preflop

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b/c shoving pf = throwing away money

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haha... WHAT???

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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how can you NOT shove preflop

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b/c shoving pf = throwing away money

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This is almost never the case with AA.

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It certainly is in this case unless villain is the donk of ages. 35/14 is bad but w/o any other info, no where near bad enough to even consider pushing pf. We even have position for god sakes!

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

Fly how many times have you seen someone 4-bet preflop then fold to a push? wtf...

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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how can you NOT shove preflop

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Purely FPS I guess.

I figured that his stats indicated that he would 4bet QQ/JJ/ possibly even TT OOP and I didn't want to scare those holdings away PF. I was hoping a semi-decent flop would come where he could get it all in for sure. The worst possible flop just happened to come. I'm not justifying the smooth call but rather explaining my (incorrect) reasoning.

Not that it matters, but it appears I got lucky as he did show down KK. I was definitely folding to a larger turn bet and agree with those who said I should have folded on the flop. A tad over 3:1 just isn't enough when there is a good chance villain could already have a straight, not to mention numerous other holdings.

Thanks for the responses.

Haupt_234

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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Fly how many times have you seen someone 4-bet preflop then fold to a push? wtf...

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2 buyins makes a monstrous difference. People simply do not get the money in pf for 2 buy ins w/o the goods. Besides, this guy's aggresion is 4. I say if he has a hand thats calling a pf push then we bust him on almost every flop. If he doesn't, we'll get at the very least another bet out of him.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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how can you NOT shove preflop

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b/c shoving pf = throwing away money

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This is almost never the case with AA.

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It certainly is in this case unless villain is the donk of ages. 35/14 is bad but w/o any other info, no where near bad enough to even consider pushing pf. We even have position for god sakes!

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LOL I push this against good players too. No one is 4-betting QQ and folding here IMO. He'll snap call with QQ and AK, and possibly JJ/TT. Getting AI PF against KK/AK is hugely +EV, and its almost impossible to make up this EV postflop unless he is a huge bluffing station postflop.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

Against a player with those stats I dont mind the call preflop and as played I probably push the river, hoping to get called by kings.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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how can you NOT shove preflop

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b/c shoving pf = throwing away money

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This is almost never the case with AA.

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It certainly is in this case unless villain is the donk of ages. 35/14 is bad but w/o any other info, no where near bad enough to even consider pushing pf. We even have position for god sakes!

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LOL I push this against good players too. No one is 4-betting QQ and folding here IMO. He'll snap call with QQ and AK, and possibly JJ/TT. Getting AI PF against KK/AK is hugely +EV, and its almost impossible to make up this EV postflop unless he is a huge bluffing station postflop.

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you know this full ring right?

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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LOL I push this against good players too.


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!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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He'll snap call with QQ and AK, and possibly JJ/TT


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I think he folds AK and TT very often, and JJ often.

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Getting AI PF against KK/AK is hugely +EV, and its almost impossible to make up this EV postflop unless he is a huge bluffing station postflop.


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If he has KK, we'll bust him on most flops anyway and the equity we gain from other hands will exceed the required make up by leaps and bounds.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

this hand is well played everywhere, although I'm pretty sure he has KK by the river and I might put the rest in for value

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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you know this full ring right?

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What does that change? The guy is 35/14 and just 4-bet. He's not bluffing here. He loves his hand, and isn't folding.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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you know this full ring right?

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What does that change? The guy is 35/14 and just 4-bet. He's not bluffing here. He loves his hand, and isn't folding.

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You said earlier that he'd snap call with JJ and TT and stuff, and that is really not true 200bbs deep at full ring.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

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you know this full ring right?

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What does that change? The guy is 35/14 and just 4-bet. He's not bluffing here. He loves his hand, and isn't folding.

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You said earlier that he'd snap call with JJ and TT and stuff, and that is really not true 200bbs deep at full ring.

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Well its true if he 4-bets with them IMO. Guy who 4-bets TT here doesn't understand poker that well so I won't expect him to fold either.

Re: Slowplaying AA DEEP .50/1
 

I think you played this hand well OP.
I think folding AA here is a lot more difficult than some people are saying. Unless I had significant history with the villian here and I know he's not firing the turn without a very strong hand on this board, I would call.

Versus certain opponents I think we can fold the turn.

But against a player without much history I think you played it perfectly.