Am i a bad player?
 

So after this hand, two guys at the table were telling me how bad my play/call was. One guy was a shortstack donk and the other had a drink of hateroade this morining. So the question is, is this really a bad play?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with :ah :kd
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises to $50</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: :th :jh :5h ($205, 4 players)
BB checks, [color=#cc0000]UTG+1 bets $60</font>, Hero raises to $220</font>, Button folds, BB raises all-in $1012</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.


Is this Bad?

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

YOU ARE THE WORST

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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YOU ARE THE WORST

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I asked about the play, not me. I know im bad but i didnt think my call was.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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YOU ARE THE WORST

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I asked about the play, not me. I know im bad but i didnt think my call was.

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i dont either.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

I don't like the call. I assume your opponent had you raped either with a set or an already made flush. Both of which are very bad for you. You are not pot committed to calling this. You have only committed a 1/3 of your stack.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

well, let's look at your out's and odds of winning here. All in all, I'd say you're looking alright here unless the villain flopped a set or a flush.

you have 9 heart outs to give you the nut flush, plus 3 outs to a K, 3 outs to an A (assuming those would give you the best hand), 3 outs to a Q to give you the nut str8 (not counting the Q of hearts to give you the flush).

Given not all of those outs will help you, as your opponent probably has a hand that will counterfit some of them.

the pot is giving you 1.9 : 1 odds.

It really depends on what type of hand you put him on. I'd say if all of your heart outs will win you the hand, as well as your queen outs, then I think you can call here. Calling with just the flush draw is marginal here.

If you think your opponent has a set already, then I would suggest folding, as you lose any of your heart outs that pair the board.

All in all, I don't think this is a "bad" call. I don't think calling here makes you a "bad" player. This is a tough spot, you're risking your stack, but unless he has JJ, or TT, I'd say go for it.

On a side note, with a hand like this, I prefer to be the one pushing, not calling, as it gives you more ways to win i.e. your opponent folding as well as calling and losing. By you calling him now, you now have to show down the best hand in order to win. I know this is obvious, but still thought I'd mention it here as you called the all-in bet.

I think a better solution here would be to call the UTG bet of 60 as you have monster draws, and then wait to see what the button and BB do.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

Download PokerStove and assign them ranges and compare to your pot odds. I'd raise his $60 bet more also.

Hand 0: 42.997% 42.96% 00.03% 7656 6.00 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 57.003% 56.97% 00.03% 10152 6.00 { 55, KQs, Qh2h, JcTc, JdTd, JsTs, 9h7h, 8h2h, JTo }

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Download PokerStove and assign them ranges and compare to your pot odds. I'd raise his $60 bet more also.

Hand 0: 42.997% 42.96% 00.03% 7656 6.00 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 57.003% 56.97% 00.03% 10152 6.00 { 55, KQs, Qh2h, JcTc, JdTd, JsTs, 9h7h, 8h2h, JTo }

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so based on those odds, he should call here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] You didn't include JJ, or TT though. hmmm.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

that $50 bet seems weird.

sometimes I smoothcall this but most of the time I raise.

I don't think the all in call is bad, they are just haters.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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Download PokerStove and assign them ranges and compare to your pot odds. I'd raise his $60 bet more also.

Hand 0: 42.997% 42.96% 00.03% 7656 6.00 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 57.003% 56.97% 00.03% 10152 6.00 { 55, KQs, Qh2h, JcTc, JdTd, JsTs, 9h7h, 8h2h, JTo }

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so based on those odds, he should call here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] You didn't include JJ, or TT though. hmmm.

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I agree you have to include jj and tt. I would like to see the reduction in hero's equity with these hands included in his range.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

Why do you include hands like Qh2h and 8h2h ?
and is it a format that includs Qh3h etc ? If yes, then I don't know how to do it ...

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

call=good
you needing to ask=bad

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

You're still a rookie at cash NL. Why would you ever call an AI on a such a weak draw. You'd be better off pushing the action VS calling it for one.

BB definatley has a flush. Alot of folks just call the flop and hope for a safe turn to move AI. Most folks wont call an AI on a 4 card flush draw.

Let me ask you something. If you had 1500 cash sitting at a live 5-10 game, and that money was going to feed you for the next couple weeks. Would you put it All-In on that draw? I know what I would do.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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You're still a rookie at cash NL. Why would you ever call an AI on a such a weak draw. You'd be better off pushing the action VS calling it for one.

BB definatley has a flush. Alot of folks just call the flop and hope for a safe turn to move AI. Most folks wont call an AI on a 4 card flush draw.

Let me ask you something. If you had 1500 cash sitting at a live 5-10 game, and that money was going to feed you for the next couple weeks. Would you put it All-In on that draw? I know what I would do.

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wtf...what kind of responce is this? alright, indulge me. What would you do if you were at a live 5-10 game with food money ?

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

I don't like the call, 95% of the time the BB all in raiser has a flush. You don't have many outs.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

nah not 'bad' .. maybe marginal

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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Let me ask you something. If you had 1500 cash sitting at a live 5-10 game, and that money was going to feed you for the next couple weeks. Would you put it All-In on that draw? I know what I would do.

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This advice is terrible....

I cant think of a worse approach to hand analysis

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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What would you do if you were at a live 5-10 game with hooker and blow money?

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Re: Am i a bad player?
 

I don't think he has the flush here. Probably JJ or TT and trying to protect against your draw. the odds are heavily in favor of a set here. i.e. flopping a set 7.5 to 1, vs. flopping a flush 100 to 1.

Plus, think about what kind of hands are calling your prelfop raise? Pairs are much more likely than some random suited connectors that fit the flush theory. KQ suited is about the only non-pair that is likely to have called your prelfop raise and fit the flush theory. And if he has that, he shouldn't be so eager to push all in on the flop as he is way ahead.

The all in move on the flop to me would represent a low flush trying to protect against a higher flush, (not likely here because of the preflop action), or a set like JJ, or TT, trying to protect against a drawing hand (much more likely). Plus if you already flopped a flush (again not likely), in the villain's eyes, they have 10 outs to redraw to beat you.

I think you're looking at JJ or TT here, not a flush [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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ou didn't include JJ, or TT though. hmmm.

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JJ and TT don't limp preflop too often.


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Why do you include hands like Qh2h and 8h2h ?
and is it a format that includs Qh3h etc ? If yes, then I don't know how to do it ...

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I was just adding in a flopped flush. I don't really think it affects the EV of the hand if I make it Q2h as opposed to the more realistic T9h.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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Let me ask you something. If you had 1500 cash sitting at a live 5-10 game, and that money was going to feed you for the next couple weeks. Would you put it All-In on that draw? I know what I would do.

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This advice is terrible....

I cant think of a worse approach to hand analysis

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agreed. If you are thinking about lifestyle issues outside of poker while you're at the table, then you shouldn't be playing. You need to check that crap at the door, and be objective at the table. Otherwise you'll play scared and be taken apart.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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JJ and TT don't limp preflop too often.


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they didn't limp. they called a preflop raise, which is very likely. JJ and TT don't re-raise too often preflop either.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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Let me ask you something. If you had 1500 cash sitting at a live 5-10 game, and that money was going to feed you for the next couple weeks. Would you put it All-In on that draw? I know what I would do.

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wtf...what kind of responce is this? alright, indulge me. What would you do if you were at a live 5-10 game with food money ?

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You guys are suppose to be 2+2ers? What a bunch of joke players.

I thought this would create some fun drama. 1st off, I would'nt play with food money nor do I borrow if need be. 2nd, to answer his thread title......Yes!

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

My bad, read UTG+1 as the person shoving. It doesn't matter anyway, I was just showing the guy how to determine if his calls are correct.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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My bad, read UTG+1 as the person shoving. It doesn't matter anyway, I was just showing the guy how to determine if his calls are correct.

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cool. I'll have to download poker stove, sounds like a cool program, plus beats doing all this on my own [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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Let me ask you something. If you had 1500 cash sitting at a live 5-10 game, and that money was going to feed you for the next couple weeks. Would you put it All-In on that draw? I know what I would do.

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Quickly, I'm a dengenarate. So yes i would put it in, doenst make it right tho. But i didnt think this was bad. JJ was not in his range. TT maybe, but JJ gets repoped 9/10 times.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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Let me ask you something. If you had 1500 cash sitting at a live 5-10 game, and that money was going to feed you for the next couple weeks. Would you put it All-In on that draw? I know what I would do.

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Quickly, I'm a dengenarate. So yes i would put it in, doenst make it right tho. But i didnt think this was bad. JJ was not in his range. TT maybe, but JJ gets repoped 9/10 times.

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Is it to early in the thread to ask what the villain actually showed? Just curious [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

You guys are rite, I stand corrected, you should never play scared. But, there is a big diffence between playing dumb and playing smart. Something some of you would'nt no anything about.

I don't see what's so hard about anaylzing this hand. There should be enough info on the table for this lay down to be easy. BB is'nt going to come over a raise and another reraise without a flush here. So he takes 2 of your outs away rite there. Do you still call? You now have 6 outs, this is like trying to draw an Ace or King against a under pair on the turn for all your money. There's no difference you donkies.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

I'd just call the flop usually.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

you almost certainly have only 7 outs and several of his hands have straight flush outs

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

why does this thread get 30 responses when much harder hands only get 5-6?

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Download PokerStove and assign them ranges and compare to your pot odds. I'd raise his $60 bet more also.

Hand 0: 42.997% 42.96% 00.03% 7656 6.00 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 57.003% 56.97% 00.03% 10152 6.00 { 55, KQs, Qh2h, JcTc, JdTd, JsTs, 9h7h, 8h2h, JTo }

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i'm stupid

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

edited my ranges because i can't read a hand history. guess it's marginal afterall


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 65.519% 65.52% 00.00% 18162 0.00 { JJ-TT, 55, KhQh, Kh9h, Qh9h, Qh8h, JTs, Th9h, 9h8h, 9h7h, 8h7h, 8h6h, 7h6h, 7h5h, 6h5h, 6h4h, 5h4h, JTo }
Hand 1: 34.481% 34.48% 00.00% 9558 0.00 { AhKd }

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

When I'm on, I usually only respond to the smaller threads. I have no idea how this one got so big so fast??????

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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he's most likely not making that suckin bet followed by a shove with JT

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What bet? He checked.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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he's most likely not making that suckin bet followed by a shove with JT

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What bet? He checked.

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helps if i could read a hh. thought he bet 60 then shoved

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

Get a better converter. Stack sizes? Pot size? Looks like you're against a set here. I raise this flop too. I like to gamble b/c against a set you're only small dog, and there's lots of dead money in pot.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

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why does this thread get 30 responses when much harder hands only get 5-6?

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Yea, this thread is terrible. Sometimes I will go into a thread that is a difficult decision and not respond because I'm not sure.

Re: Am i a bad player?
 

A set is the 2nd the worst hand he can face other than a stone cold bluff.