200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

Villain seems like a decent TAG. Not enough hands on him to draw a better conclusion than that.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $197.75
Hero (UTG): $212.75
CO: $239.30
BTN: $94
SB: $387.05

Pre-Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $7, CO calls $7, 3 folds

Flop: ($17) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $13, CO raises to $35, Hero?

There may be a little of history in this hand. I stacked him on a hand like 10-15 minutes ago on another table, where he raised AA in the SB, I called with JTo in the BB, the flop was AQ9 2 tone, he led 3/4, I called, I hit a non-flush making eight and shoved over his turn bet, which he snap called and my hand held up.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

if you think he is doing this light i like a reraise. if he's solid and tag a call is fine to reevaluate turn. cant really fault either here. i like to get it in asap
- sorry saw no stats after

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

Only had like 100 hands, so I think specific stats are not important. He's got TAG stats though.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

Eh, OOP I just shove and embrace the variance. I can be convinced differently though with a more specific read.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

Shove.
A lot of draws/bluffs etc that he can have.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

I'd 3bet smaller rather than shove.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

Explanation, JFsports? Are you trying to commit him with a worse FD?

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

i really don't think shoving is very good here

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Explanation, JFsports? Are you trying to commit him with a worse FD?

[/ QUOTE ]

partly, yeah. You can let him shove other draws over your 3bet. V a thinking player you should have more FE this way too.

I can't think of any other hands anyone would recommend shoving with here other than the nut flus draw, so your hand becomes pretty transparent.

So I'd just play it like I had a strong made hand. If he shoves you have an easy call, if he calls you can open shove the turn

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i really don't think shoving is very good here

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Often it isn't. But in this particular spot, against a TAG, what's better OOP? Are you are calling and folding to any non-spade? Or just folding the flop b/c zomg he has a set?

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

i'd make it $100 and call a shove.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

if called, you shove the turn

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Explanation, JFsports? Are you trying to commit him with a worse FD?

[/ QUOTE ]

partly, yeah. You can let him shove other draws over your 3bet. V a thinking player you should have more FE this way too.

I can't think of any other hands anyone would recommend shoving with here other than the nut flus draw, so your hand becomes pretty transparent.

So I'd just play it like I had a strong made hand. If he shoves you have an easy call, if he calls you can open shove the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that I shove my strong made hands as well.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Explanation, JFsports? Are you trying to commit him with a worse FD?

[/ QUOTE ]

partly, yeah. You can let him shove other draws over your 3bet. V a thinking player you should have more FE this way too.

I can't think of any other hands anyone would recommend shoving with here other than the nut flus draw, so your hand becomes pretty transparent.

So I'd just play it like I had a strong made hand. If he shoves you have an easy call, if he calls you can open shove the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that I shove my strong made hands as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do as well, but villain won't know that.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Explanation, JFsports? Are you trying to commit him with a worse FD?

[/ QUOTE ]

partly, yeah. You can let him shove other draws over your 3bet. V a thinking player you should have more FE this way too.

I can't think of any other hands anyone would recommend shoving with here other than the nut flus draw, so your hand becomes pretty transparent.

So I'd just play it like I had a strong made hand. If he shoves you have an easy call, if he calls you can open shove the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that I shove my strong made hands as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

well shoving would make sense then from a 'balancing your range' perspective. Do you not think that overbet shoving sets here loses out on a lot of value? Or do you often get called down anyway?

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Explanation, JFsports? Are you trying to commit him with a worse FD?

[/ QUOTE ]

partly, yeah. You can let him shove other draws over your 3bet. V a thinking player you should have more FE this way too.

I can't think of any other hands anyone would recommend shoving with here other than the nut flus draw, so your hand becomes pretty transparent.

So I'd just play it like I had a strong made hand. If he shoves you have an easy call, if he calls you can open shove the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that I shove my strong made hands as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

well shoving would make sense then from a 'balancing your range' perspective. Do you not think that overbet shoving sets here loses out on a lot of value? Or do you often get called down anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's either make a slight overbet shove on the flop, or raise to 100 or whatever and be in awkward spots on the turn. Just shove (if you're going to raise).

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Explanation, JFsports? Are you trying to commit him with a worse FD?

[/ QUOTE ]

partly, yeah. You can let him shove other draws over your 3bet. V a thinking player you should have more FE this way too.

I can't think of any other hands anyone would recommend shoving with here other than the nut flus draw, so your hand becomes pretty transparent.

So I'd just play it like I had a strong made hand. If he shoves you have an easy call, if he calls you can open shove the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that I shove my strong made hands as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

well shoving would make sense then from a 'balancing your range' perspective. Do you not think that overbet shoving sets here loses out on a lot of value? Or do you often get called down anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel I get called here often enough shoving QQ+ and sets.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

With the history (If the villain is aware of that too), I think shoving is the best move. He probably has a weak pair or a draw himself which he can't call an AI bet, but can 4 bet your smallish 3 bet with

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
With the history (If the villain is aware of that too), I think shoving is the best move. He probably has a weak pair or a draw himself which he can't call an AI bet, but can 4 bet your smallish 3 bet with

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If he is 4 betting small pairs (very unlikely) and 4 betting draws (possible), we want him to 4 bet.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

How would you guys play a set here?

I also am starting to believe that 3betting small is a better play than just straight shoving, but I don't know.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

I think the wide variety of responses here make me think that this play is strongly dependent on your image and how you play other hands and even how you play poker in general (nit vs. aggro)

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the wide variety of responses here make me think that this play is strongly dependent on your image and how you play other hands and even how you play poker in general (nit vs. aggro)

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that's a fair point. ppl who play LAG kinda need to play some hands differently to ppl who play 16/12 or something. Which is why I think hero's image should be posted every time in threads

I think once you are thinking about the game enough to realise that, and think about what other hands in your range you'd make the current play with, you are fastracking along the line to being a very good player

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

I definitely 3bet here.

Basically the only hands that he can have and call you with that you're in serious trouble to are 77 and 55. Even against those you have decent equity. He probably folds a hand like QJ. He probably calls a smaller flush draw (sweet). He usually 3balls AQ and certainly QQ pre if he is a decent aggro tag. basically his range here is heavily polarized to stuff he's going to fold to your 3bet. and you are probably only a 60-40 dog to his calling range.

i think a lot has to do with how you play though. i am pretty loose-aggro preflop so i find people love to call and make plays at me on flops like this. so a lot of the time they will have stuff that can't stand a 3bet.

Re: 200NL - What is \"standard\" here?
 

i make it $100 and call shove.

pushing is obv. fine too but shoving for $180 or so into a $60 pot kinda tips off your hand