Am I out of line here?
 

I play at Hollywood Park Casino In LA at the NL100 a descent amount. One thing I pride myself on is always being mild mannered and not whining or anything like that, and I always tip the dealers well.
Tonight I was observing a hand between the guy to my left who I was chatting with occasionally all night and another youngish guy accross the table with sunglasses who seemed to think he was the best player in LA. Anyways, on the river the guy to my left check called a 50$ bet (for a pot of about 200$) on a board on 9 7 6 2 2. The other player tabled 9 7 for top 2, and the player to my left showed me 10 10 shaking his head and was in the process of mucking when I held my hand out and told him he had the best hand, which was clearly audible from accross the table. The player to my left looked at the board again and said something about how he didn't see the board pairing, and tabled and won the pot. The other guy, ovbiously, was heated, and started telling me off, and then made the dealer to call the floor because he thought the pot should be his. The floor and dealer both told me I shouldn't have gotton involved, but say that since the player to my left never mucked and showed he deserved the pot. For the next two hours the other youngish guy reminded me of that hand and told me off about 50 times, including telling me that he would "f***ing kick my a** outside", until I finally left for the night.

I think I did the wrong thing, but I acted in the spur of the moment without getting a chance to think it over.

What should the correct ruling have been and was I wrong here?

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

next time just kick his chair real hard and act like you're coughing while saying "don't muck". Seriously, don't say anything unless the player tables his cards....

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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What should the correct ruling have been and was I wrong here?

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The correct ruling should have been exactly what they did. The guy never mucked his hand and once he tabled it, it was the best hand so he won.

Yes, you were out of line.

But don't feel too bad. I think this type of spur of the moment mistakes have happened to all of us at least once.

We all make an honest mistake and most likely this won't happen again to you.

Just keep being a gentlemen at the table. You sound like a good guy.

Colima420

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

Id have said "show one show all, you gotta show it down now dude".

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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Id have observed the rule that says, "One player to a hand", and kept my mouth shut--even if the player on my left was my wife.

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Re: Am I out of line here?
 

If you wanted to help the 10's-Up guy for some reason there are probably more subtle ways to do it. Generally speaking, though, if a player chooses to muck a winner that's his problem. Part of the skill of the game is a basic one: being able to read the board.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

Was this guy really deserving of the pot here?
Seems like he was playing his hand based on the advice of the guy next to him.

Would it be completely impossible to award the pot to the opponent here since this guy was getting advice mid-hand (even if that advice were at showdown)?


To the OP, there's no freaking way you should have interfered here. I have never said anything of the variety that the other guy did at the table. But if you had done this to me I might have been tempted to.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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Id have said "show one show all, you gotta show it down now dude".

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awesome.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

Floor ruling was correct. Your action was not.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

Yes, Bobbo, you were way out of line. Don't do dat. Every player has to table his hand to make a claim for the pot and you can't help someone read their hand to decide whether or not to table it.

It's not so clear the floor ruling was correct. OP said the pocket tens guy "was in the process of mucking". If the guy had already placed his cards forward face down and the dealer just hadn't swept 'em, he doesn't get the pot at this stage. If he was still waving his cards around, he does get the pot. If he was heading forward with the cards face down 30 milliseconds from releasing 'em... well... floor just has to take a guess as to whether the player had given up and wouldn't have seen it on his own, but I think if he still has the cards in his hand he hasn't given up.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

Everybody has done this, even the ones who've said you were out of line. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

(Don't do it again.)

((or screw the 'Net guy with the sunglasses, which is my preferred opinion))

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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between the guy to my left who I was chatting with occasionally all night and another youngish guy accross the table with sunglasses who seemed to think he was the best player in LA.

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Ruling right.
You wrong.
Hope your attitude toward the two players involved wasn't the real reason you opened your mouth.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

Yes the ruling was right.

Yes you were way out of line.

Yes I would want to wait for you outside and kick your a**.

Next time you're in a big pot and show down two pair
and your opponent tries to muck you want his neighbor
to point out his straight?

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Id have observed the rule that says, "One player to a hand", and kept my mouth shut--even if the player on my left was my wife.

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Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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Everybody has done this, even the ones who've said you were out of line.

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I have never done this.

I have even mildly admonished a player who tried to suggest to me what I should do.


I am in 3 seat, opponent is in 8 or 9 seat.
I have AA with no club, board has 4 clubs.
We check the river I believe.

she turns over her hand and it takes me a little while before I let go of my cards because I'm straining to see across the table to see what she has.
She had spades but made a straight which still beat me.
But from that far across the table it can be hard to see so I wanted to make sure I was beat before I mucked my AA.

Some player not involved in the hand informs me that if I have a club then I should show my hand because I win.

Dealer and I both inform him that he shouldn't be doing that.
The lady who won the hand didn't seem to mind that he was trying to help me read the board and win the hand.

I don't think the guy believed or understood what the dealer and I were telling him about his 'help' being really inappropriate.

Re: Am I out of line here? *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Carlson411

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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In conclusion, don't be a big mouth.

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Dealer pays her.
Security grabs her and the dealer and accuse them of cheating.
"Mr Big Mouth" might have saved you a lot of trouble.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

Nah doubt it. That was the islands. You'd be surprised how they play there.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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Id have said "show one show all, you gotta show it down now dude".

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Best way to use the rules to help the guy out, and then nobody can claim you're helping him.

In a case like this, how you say it is more important than what is said.

Saying you have the best hand is against the rules, pointing out that since he showed you, he must now show everyone is following the rules. They both have the same outcome, but former is wrong and the latter is correct.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

Yeah, you messed up a little.

I have accidentally done the same thing, just by muttering "nice hand" in a tone of voice that indicates I expect their hand is good.

It was a mistake, but anybody who threatens violence over $200 earned the bad karma. [censored] him, and try not to do it again. Certainly sounds like you didn't do it maliciously.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

just table the damn cards and theres no problem.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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...including telling me that he would "f***ing kick my a** outside", until I finally left for the night.

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You definitely screwed up, but this should also have gotten this kid thrown out. It's not acceptable to physically threaten a player at the table, and I've seen players thrown out for this.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

SOSA or "Nice river suckout!" when he showed you the 10s would have been better, but the other guy was obviously a douche so no big deal...

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

I'd like to hear from Randy if that player saying he has the best hand violates the one player to a hand rule. The call had been made and he voluntarily showed him.

A good while ago I saw the best hand folded without saying anything and made a post about it here. Everyone said I should have said something. The hand had been tabled and the dealer either didn't see it or screwed him. I guess the big difference in the view points is that here the hand hadn't been tabled.

The best part of the post is that it's NL100 and the kid, like many in that game, has sunglasses on. Love the WSOP mentality you see playing for less than the cost of dinner at a good restaurant. I know it's real money for them but it's still too funny.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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I'd like to hear from Randy if that player saying he has the best hand violates the one player to a hand rule.

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Yes.

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The hand had been tabled and the dealer either didn't see it or screwed him. I guess the big difference in the view points is that here the hand hadn't been tabled.


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When a player turns their hand face up on the table they are making a claim for the pot.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

Think of it like this:If someone's hand hasn't been turned up yet, they still have one move left - turn it up or not. Telling the guy he has the best hand helps him make this decision, and you can't help another player make decisions regarding how he should play his cards.

If they were face up and the pot was going to the other guy, there's no more decisions left, the hand is over, the wrong guy's getting the pot, which is bad for the integrity of the poker game, speak up!

Re: the guy you accidently screwed. Tell him "I made a mistake, I didn't know it was agaisnt the rules to speak up. Sorry."

He threatens you again/swears at you, call floor+security. (Although I think floor would call security if they agree he needs to be tossed.)

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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between the guy to my left who I was chatting with occasionally all night and another youngish guy accross the table with sunglasses who seemed to think he was the best player in LA.

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Ruling right.
You wrong.
Hope your attitude toward the two players involved wasn't the real reason you opened your mouth.

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I added this part because in hindsight I think it made a difference in my descision to speak up. I was really wishing I hadn't said anything afterwards, but it was one of those situations where if I had waited one second his cards are in the muck, so I didn't logically think about it. I guess the only thing to do now is learn from the mistake, I doubt it was a life changing amount of money for either.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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A good while ago I saw the best hand folded without saying anything and made a post about it here. Everyone said I should have said something. The hand had been tabled and the dealer either didn't see it or screwed him.

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I'm surprised that you didn't already know this.
Isn't this simply a situation where 'cards-speak' is in effect here and that even players not involved in the hand have an obligation to uphold the integrity of the game?

Seems pretty obvious to me and I don't even play live very often.

Correcting an obvious dealer mistake is completely different from trying to give advice to a player during a hand.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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Id have said "show one show all, you gotta show it down now dude".

[/ QUOTE ]Saying you have the best hand is against the rules, pointing out that since he showed you, he must now show everyone is following the rules. They both have the same outcome, but former is wrong and the latter is correct.

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Not the same outcome. If someone invokes the "show one, show all" rule while the hand is still in progress, but the cards were shown to someone not in the hand, those cards should be set aside until after the hand is over, then shown to the table.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

Wow. I learned something.

Thanks for the post OP.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

"I play at Hollywood Park Casino In LA ..." how can you be out of line in LA. You can do , say and act anyway you want there.
i stopped reading right there and will answer, no you weren't out of line.

Re: Am I out of line here?
 

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For the next two hours the other youngish guy reminded me of that hand and told me off about 50 times, including telling me that he would "f***ing kick my a** outside",

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seems the original question has been answered however im surprised no one has picked up on this. no way am i sitting at a table letting someone talk like this.

im surprised the dealer didnt find it unacceptable, but i sure would call floor immediately upon hearing a physical threat. id ask that he be kicked out and if floor doesnt act, id politely leave.