Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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On Friday, prosecutors charged 24-year-old Garrett Reid with five additional drug counts related to 89 pills he had smuggled into prison. His cellmate said he saw Reid remove the pills from his rectum and that Reid offered him some of the pills.

On Thursday night, police searched the Reid home to corroborate the cellmate's story. They found numerous drugs in Garrett Reid's room, including several prescriptions in his name and other prescriptions in his brother's name. They also found two syringes and eight needles.

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The judge noted that Andy and Tammy Reid love their sons and have supported them through repeated attempts at drug rehabilitation. But he wondered aloud how the parents could be blind to the long list of drugs, guns and ammunition that police found in the Reids' home and vehicles.

"These are highly addictive medications that are just around the house with two addicts in it," O'Neill said. "It sounds more or less like a drug emporium."

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SI.com: I want to be on the record. Has Michael ever, at any point, said to you he's been involved in dogfighting?

Goodell: No ... His comments to me were very consistent with what he said publicly: That he does not have any involvement in dogfighting, that he loves dogs, that he would not have any interest in that, that it wasn't happening at his property, and that was his discussion ... And I was very clear with him that if it's happening on your property, it's your responsibility.

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So, I'm thinking at least 4 games. Right?

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

...

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

Oh gotcha, white coach with adult thugs in his house and all is good.

Never mind, nothing to see here!

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

Why are cocaine sentences MUCH shorter than crack sentences?

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

But seriously, I don't even know how to respond to this thread. If someone digs a hole in your yard and plants illegal narcotics, etc. does that become the responsibility of the property owner?

I really don't want Romo to play versus the eagles, so I'm gonna plant some coke in his house, so Goddel suspends him?

I know I'm using hyperbole, but my analogy is as different as your scenario in this situation.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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Why are cocaine sentences MUCH shorter than crack sentences?

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Though I tend to agree with what you are implying, didn't Reid's son test positive for smack?

craig

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why are cocaine sentences MUCH shorter than crack sentences?

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BECAUSE CRACK TURNS YOU INTO AN EVIL SOULLESS FIEND, SIR. COKE JUST MAKES YOU DANCE.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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Oh gotcha, white coach with adult thugs in his house and all is good.

Never mind, nothing to see here!

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Is it possible that Goodell could assume that Andy having to watch his children lose precious years of their lives in prison already be punishment enough?

I'm actually being serious here and not sure what else to say. I can see it both ways, Goodell has to do something to remain consistent or we can assume what I already said. I just don't know, and that why he is the commisioner and I'm not.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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But seriously, I don't even know how to respond to this thread. If someone digs a hole in your yard and plants illegal narcotics, etc. does that become the responsibility of the property owner?

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Apparently only if you wear a jersey on the sideline.

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I really don't want Romo to play versus the eagles, so I'm gonna plant some coke in his house, so Goddel suspends him?

I know I'm using hyperbole, but my analogy is as different as your scenario in this situation.

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Andy Reid's kids continually bought and sold drugs and had illegally purchased guns in his home. Imagine if Edgerrin James' cousin gets busted for this.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

Needle,

Clearly there's a divide between how coaches and players are punished. I can't explain why, but I'm sure like you said even when you can't explain it you kinda understand why it exists. That doesn't make it any less frustrating though.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But seriously, I don't even know how to respond to this thread. If someone digs a hole in your yard and plants illegal narcotics, etc. does that become the responsibility of the property owner?

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently only if you wear a jersey on the sideline.

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't want Romo to play versus the eagles, so I'm gonna plant some coke in his house, so Goddel suspends him?

I know I'm using hyperbole, but my analogy is as different as your scenario in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy Reid's kids continually bought and sold drugs and had illegally purchased guns in his home. Imagine if Edgerrin James' cousin gets busted for this.

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Hm, apparently I don't know as much on the vick situation as I thought? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I'm an eagles fan, so I've been closely following the Reid situation, but I'll back off since apparently I'm out of the loop in the Vick thing.

I thought Vick was the one that was organizing/running the illegal dog rings?

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

Fonkey,

He was, and that's what he was ultimately suspended indefinitely for. The issue is that early on in the process when he was still proclaiming his innocence he said that he was never at the house and that it was his cousin who lived there and ran the household. That's when Goodell responed with the, "I was very clear with him that if it's happening on your property, it's your responsibility" explanation for why he was still going to be asked to skip the pre-season camps.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Needle,

Clearly there's a divide between how coaches and players are punished. I can't explain why, but I'm sure like you said even when you can't explain it you kinda understand why it exists. That doesn't make it any less frustrating though.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes it more frustrating is the fact that we as the public are to assume that these coaches are in control and more mature than the players. Now this really isn't an issue of maturity, but obviously a mistake was made somewhere in Reid's life as a parent, not saying that he could have done something different that would change the situation but something did go wrong.

And about the first point in being in control. This is what any fan assumes out of a coach is he can control a team. I'm sorry if I feel like if you can't control a family you are not fit to control a team. Yes, one is an occupation and the other is not. Also, I understand that controlling 22-40 year old men is completely different than your own children, but it is a feeling I have.

Thank you mmb for bringing this up. I, for one reason or another, may have never made the connection between the two. It actually makes me angry that the Goodell hasn't said anything, or at least anything I have heard.

Edit: fixed last sentence so it made sense.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fonkey,

He was, and that's what he was ultimately suspended indefinitely for. The issue is that early on in the process when he was still proclaiming his innocence he said that he was never at the house and that it was his cousin who lived there and ran the household. That's when Goodell responed with the, "I was very clear with him that if it's happening on your property, it's your responsibility" explanation for why he was still going to be asked to skip the pre-season camps.

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OIC, then your position is more tenable than I originally thought; however, the key difference I think is that an ivestigation was currently underway that included Vick for felony charges right?

If Andy Reid was the target of the investiation of drug running, I believe he would have been suspended.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Needle,

Clearly there's a divide between how coaches and players are punished. I can't explain why, but I'm sure like you said even when you can't explain it you kinda understand why it exists. That doesn't make it any less frustrating though.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes it more frustrating is the fact that we as the public are to assume that these coaches are in control and more mature than the players. Now this really isn't an issue of maturity, but obviously a mistake was made somewhere in Reid's life as a parent, not saying that he could have done something different that would change the situation but something did go wrong.

And about the first point in being in control. This is what any fan assumes out of a coach is he can control a team. I'm sorry if I feel like if you can't control a family you are not fit to control a team. Yes, one is an occupation and the other is not. Also, I understand that controlling 22-40 year old men is completely different than your own children, but it is a feeling I have.

Thank you mmb for bringing this up. I, for one reason or another, may have never made the connection between the two. It actually makes me angry that the Goodell hasn't said anything, or at least anything I have heard.

Edit: fixed last sentence so it made sense.

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How often are NFL coaches even home though? The rigorous demands force them (pulling numbers out of my ass) but I would speculate 80-100 hours per week in the office, and away from home.

I would imagine he's with the NFL team 10 times as much as he's at home.

I just can't damn the person putting in insane hours to fufill his obligation to his job for not simultaneously controlling his household.

edit: and if he wasn't putting in these insane hours and leading his team to the playoffs what 5 straight times? i can damn near guarantee his ass would be fired

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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If Andy Reid was the target of the investiation of drug running, I believe he would have been suspended.

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The more I think about this the more I feel that a coach should be punished more. Now the punishment would have to be issued differently, I don't think it would be entirely fair to an organization for an immediate suspension. But, take away a 2nd day draft pick, don't allow the coach to partake in OTA's, ect. If he is suspended during the season what is stopping him from still making game plans and watching film?

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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How often are NFL coaches even home though? The rigorous demands force them (pulling numbers out of my ass) but I would speculate 80-100 hours per week in the office, and away from home.

I would imagine he's with the NFL team 10 times as much as he's at home.

I just can't damn the person putting in insane hours to fufill his obligation to his job for not simultaneously controlling his household.

edit: and if he wasn't putting in these insane hours and leading his team to the playoffs what 5 straight times? i can damn near guarantee his ass would be fired

[/ QUOTE ]

Fonkey,

I'm sorry but that just doesn't cut it for me. I understand that 100 hour work weeks are sometimes the norm at the NFL level. But, that is an excuse and a very lame one at that. A parent is a parent no matter what. We all know kids that ended up fine even though their dads were firemen, policemen, businessman, ect. that worked hours that were out of the ordinary. These parents learned to balance both work and family. I am no parent, far from it actually, but I think that is part of having kids, learn to balance and if you can't do that, well then I would say you are not doing your job as a parent.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

Plz plz plz pl zpl zpl zpl pzl pzlplz plz pl zplzp resign.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]

And about the first point in being in control. This is what any fan assumes out of a coach is he can control a team. I'm sorry if I feel like if you can't control a family you are not fit to control a team. Yes, one is an occupation and the other is not. Also, I understand that controlling 22-40 year old men is completely different than your own children, but it is a feeling I have.


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Tony Dungy is a good coach by all accounts and yet his son committed suicide. I would say that it's more like being an NFL head coach precludes someone from being in control of their families because they spend such little time with their families.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fonkey,

He was, and that's what he was ultimately suspended indefinitely for. The issue is that early on in the process when he was still proclaiming his innocence he said that he was never at the house and that it was his cousin who lived there and ran the household. That's when Goodell responed with the, "I was very clear with him that if it's happening on your property, it's your responsibility" explanation for why he was still going to be asked to skip the pre-season camps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Goodell is clearly a racist. oh wait... wtf [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

And about the first point in being in control. This is what any fan assumes out of a coach is he can control a team. I'm sorry if I feel like if you can't control a family you are not fit to control a team. Yes, one is an occupation and the other is not. Also, I understand that controlling 22-40 year old men is completely different than your own children, but it is a feeling I have.


[/ QUOTE ]

Tony Dungy is a good coach by all accounts and yet his son committed suicide. I would say that it's more like being an NFL head coach precludes someone from being in control of their families because they spend such little time with their families.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just about to bring this up. Does anyone condemn Dungy for fufilling his obligations to being a top 3 NFL coach, and not spending enough time with his family?

Again no concrete facts, but I would imagine the odds of a dysfunctional family of NFL coaches is exponentially higher than a regular "ordinary" working person.

edit: needle, this is essentially the only argument that can be made on my side. if it's not enough for you then we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

How often are NFL coaches even home though? The rigorous demands force them (pulling numbers out of my ass) but I would speculate 80-100 hours per week in the office, and away from home.

I would imagine he's with the NFL team 10 times as much as he's at home.

I just can't damn the person putting in insane hours to fufill his obligation to his job for not simultaneously controlling his household.

edit: and if he wasn't putting in these insane hours and leading his team to the playoffs what 5 straight times? i can damn near guarantee his ass would be fired

[/ QUOTE ]

Fonkey,

I'm sorry but that just doesn't cut it for me. I understand that 100 hour work weeks are sometimes the norm at the NFL level. But, that is an excuse and a very lame one at that. A parent is a parent no matter what. We all know kids that ended up fine even though their dads were firemen, policemen, businessman, ect. that worked hours that were out of the ordinary. These parents learned to balance both work and family. I am no parent, far from it actually, but I think that is part of having kids, learn to balance and if you can't do that, well then I would say you are not doing your job as a parent.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

Dog fighting for Vick and a drug emporium for reid. If reid gets away with this I hope Goddell rots in hell!

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

STG and Fonkey,

From OP:

[ QUOTE ]
The judge noted that Andy and Tammy Reid love their sons and have supported them through repeated attempts at drug rehabilitation. But he wondered aloud how the parents could be blind to the long list of drugs, guns and ammunition that police found in the Reids' home and vehicles.

"These are highly addictive medications that are just around the house with two addicts in it," O'Neill said. "It sounds more or less like a drug emporium."

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible that this situation is apples and oranges as well? I guess the arguement can be made that both have clear signs that need to be addressed. But, I can understand where you are coming from and family life has to suffer during the 20 years or so that a person is a coach.

Still, my feelings stay the same. I think I know how I would react as a player on his team and that is I could not trust him.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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edit: needle, this is essentially the only argument that can be made on my side. if it's not enough for you then we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree

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Very fair. I see both sides here pretty clearly and there obviously is a grey area in this case that unless we were to live in the situations that they lived it, have no idea what was going on in the household.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
STG and Fonkey,

From OP:

[ QUOTE ]
The judge noted that Andy and Tammy Reid love their sons and have supported them through repeated attempts at drug rehabilitation. But he wondered aloud how the parents could be blind to the long list of drugs, guns and ammunition that police found in the Reids' home and vehicles.

"These are highly addictive medications that are just around the house with two addicts in it," O'Neill said. "It sounds more or less like a drug emporium."

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible that this situation is apples and oranges as well? I guess the arguement can be made that both have clear signs that need to be addressed. But, I can understand where you are coming from and family life has to suffer during the 20 years or so that a person is a coach.

Still, my feelings stay the same. I think I know how I would react as a player on his team and that is I could not trust him.

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Okay, this is pretty much going to be my last point. I believe it's on the individual (probably one of my strongest moral beliefs) to suceed in life. My father passed away at a young age, and my mother was forced to work two jobs to support me.

I'm now a dean's list student at penn state supporting myself through poker, and have never tried drugs in my life. I just can't comprehend that you can blame the parent in a situation like this when both invididuals are in their early to mid twenties.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

I don't know the exact story behind it. But if Reid was either selling/buying the drugs or consuming them, then it's obvious he should be suspended. But if this was done behind his back without his knowledge, then it wouldn't make too much sense to suspend him.

This is different from the Michael Vick case. Vick was a direct financier of a dog fighting ring that involved serious gambling. Unless Reid was directly involved with dealing the drugs or something similar, then it's just bad parenting on his part.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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Imagine if Edgerrin James' cousin gets busted for this.

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No way the Cavs would stand for that!



But ya, I think that if Vick was found to have only known about, but not participated in, the dogfighting, he still would have been suspended. This took place on Reid's property, right?

No question he should be punished by the league.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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Dog fighting for Vick and a drug emporium for reid. If reid gets away with this I hope Goddell rots in hell!

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Are you facking serious?

Michael Vick was bankrolling an illegal, interstate dogfighting operation. Andy Reid has two (adult) sons who are drug-addicted wastes of all the opportunities their dad's career afforded them.

While Andy Reid may be guilty of being a bad parent, that's not a crime, and certainly not one punishable by any NFL regulations. Anybody saying otherwise isn't thinking.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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Why are cocaine sentences MUCH shorter than crack sentences?

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Because people who can buy cocaine can afford good lawyers.

People pinched on crack get the public defenders, or the kind of lawyers that post on this site.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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Why are cocaine sentences MUCH shorter than crack sentences?

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Because people who can buy cocaine can afford good lawyers.

People pinched on crack get the public defenders, or the kind of lawyers that post on this site.

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I think amphetamines have a pretty harsh sentence as well. I cannot remember if it was as harsh as crack, but I know the sentences were much worse than for cocaine (and amphetamines are something one can legally get).

craig

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

All,

Please stop talking about what Vick pled guilty to doing. That is beyond the point because Goodell's quote came before that point.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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Why are cocaine sentences MUCH shorter than crack sentences?

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Because people who can buy cocaine can afford good lawyers.

People pinched on crack get the public defenders, or the kind of lawyers that post on this site.

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I was under the impression that the actual sentencing guidelines were different for the two drugs though, not just the post facto sentences.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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Why are cocaine sentences MUCH shorter than crack sentences?

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b/c the system hates blacks?

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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I was under the impression that the actual sentencing guidelines were different for the two drugs though, not just the post facto sentences.

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I just googled it and it appears that new sentencing guidelines went into effect yesterday.

npr

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The new U.S. Sentencing Commission guidelines that went into effect Thursday cut the sentence range for first-time offenders possessing 5 grams or more of crack cocaine to 51 to 63 months. The old range was 63 to 78 months.

The new range for first-time offenders possessing at least 50 grams is 97 to 121 months in prison, down from 121 to 151 months.

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That is still an insane amount of time!

craig

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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Why are cocaine sentences MUCH shorter than crack sentences?

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Because people who can buy cocaine can afford good lawyers.

People pinched on crack get the public defenders, or the kind of lawyers that post on this site.

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I was under the impression that the actual sentencing guidelines were different for the two drugs though, not just the post facto sentences.

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this is 100% correct

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

there is a huge difference between actively funding criminal activity and having criminal activity occur on your property without your consent

lol @ ESPN interviews w/ players who say "I BE SUSPENDED NO DOUBT!"

what a joke

Edit: Vick pled guilty to a felony. Nobody has even suggested that Reid has committed a crime.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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Andy Reid has two (adult) sons who are drug-addicted wastes of all the opportunities their dad's career afforded them.

While Andy Reid may be guilty of being a bad parent, that's not a crime, and certainly not one punishable by any NFL regulations. Anybody saying otherwise isn't thinking.

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If Andy's sons are adults and still living at his house, presumably rent free, then he was definitely enabling their behavior. Him doing so has definitely brought the league a lot of bad press this week. Have you read the NFL code of conduct policy? You sound pretty sure about what is and what is not punishable under the NFL regulations.

One thing to think about is that coaches are not working under the CBA, so they may have more legal room to challenge an excessive suspension or fine in court than a player would.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

The difference here, perhaps, is that it is easy to notice dogfighting on your property but not necessarily easy to notice hidden pills.

Re: Andy Reid Suspension Speculation Thread
 

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Vick pled guilty to a felony. Nobody has even suggested that Reid has committed a crime.

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Ok, lemme break this entire situation down.
The OP is referring to Goodall's position on Vick PRIOR to his involvement becoming known and him pleading guilty, when it was only alleged that he owned the property, and it was being explained that he had no involvement with the criminal activity.

It was Goodall's position at the time that despite that claim, since Mike owned the property, he was responsible.

Anything that happened after that is results-oriented thinking, and irrelevant to Goodall's position at the given time.

Let's go over it again:

Situation A:
1. Vick owns property where criminal activity occured.
2. Vick's position was he was unaware of it, and had no involvement.
3. Goodall's position was that even so, if he owned the property, he was responsible.

Situation B:
1. Reid owns property where criminal activity occured.
2. Reid's position is he was unaware of it, and had no involvement.
3. Goodall's position is ????


Obviously, some will argue that Goodall is being inconsistent unless he takes a similar position.

Others will point to facts that came out afterward, ie. Vick's conviction, and justify Goodall's position based on the ultimate results.

Some will say it is a different standard for coaches and players.....some will say it is because one is black and one is white....and some will say it is because one situation involved the brutality of indefensible dogfighting, while the other involves a sympathetic situation of a troubled kid.

But, one position you might not see many people take is this, which I think is correct, at least in my opinion:

In both situations, Goodall is wrong to assert it is the person's responsiblity because they owned the property.

In Vick's case, he never had to retract that position, because the case played out in such a way as it was irrelevant. In short, Goodall made a bad decision, and he never had to address it because Vick ended up being ultimately involved and guilty in the case, so Goodall's previous bad position was moot.

In Reid's case, Goodall can do the right thing and stay the hell out of it, because it doesn't involve any conduct violation on Reid's part, and just because he owns the property doesn't make him responsible for another adult's actions.

You can call it Goodall being inconsistent and argue double standards....but two wrongs don't make a right, and Goodall punishing Reid just to appear consistent for the people who are crying foul, in that he may have wrongfully punished Vick had he not ultimately been involved, just isn't the right move.

Again:

1. Goodall made a bad decision in Vick's case, at the time he made it.
2. Because Vick was actually guilty, the bad decision never became an issue.
3. Goodall should not make the same bad decision in Reid's case, just to satisfy people who are crying that it would be inconsistent.

Hope that helps. Have a nice day. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]