AJ, bad line?
 

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, 2 folds, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7.4SB, 3 players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5.7BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7.7BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.


I felt he could CR alot on the flop if he thought I missed, and I like the K to bluff at on the turn, since it was unlikely he had an 8. When he just calls the turn, I felt I had to bet the river for value. If he had raised the turn, I would have dumped it.

Spewish line? Had less than 20 hands with him, but he's played about 50% of hands.

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

I'm going with spew.

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

I haven't played fullring or .25/.50 in awhile, but they always bet a draw and never fold a pair on the turn where I play, so I just check/call down. On the river I would check/call to give a draw or maybe a hand like 66 a chance to bluff.

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

Against a normal player I probably check/fold the turn. Seeing as how this guy is seeing too many flops I'd probably just check/call him down and expect a split or 99, TT, JJ? Any read on his aggression level?

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

I don't like it. If you are trying to rep the king with the turn bet and CO doesn't fold, I think he is either committed to showing down or has a draw. So basically, I'm not sure how often your river bet folds a better hand or gets called by a worse hand.

If he is committed to showing down with ace high or a pocket pair or something because he doesn't believe you, he is calling your river bet. The exception to this is if he cold called with 4x or some pair below 8's, and he may not show those down since he got counterfeited and you get no value.

If he has a draw, there is a reasonable chance he'll fold those too and again you get no value.

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

you need reads to convince us that this is ok

why bet the river? lots of hands check behind that you beat. only hands that bet/tie you call.

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Spewish line? Had less than 20 hands with him, but he's played about 50% of hands.

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this isnt a reason to bet the turn or river...if anything it is a reason to check check check but please undertand that this 'read' says nothing about his postflop play. ok

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

Was he calling raises in the hands he played?

I like your pre-flop and flop. I think check/call on the turn would be good. Since the river didn't help you, assuming he has some pair, I think check/fold makes sense. If you had checked the turn and he checked back then a river bet could make sense if he was on a draw or a small pair that he would fold to a river bet.

I think you spewed 1 to 2 BB.

Did he show a number of hands so you could see what he would play?

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

I had no real read other than loose preflop. The only hand he showed down was a flush draw he called the flop and turn with, and called showdown when he made 2nd pair on the river.

Result in white: <font color="white"> He showed a counterfeited 66 and I got lucky, so I spewed the turn for sure. He was nice enough to donate on the river. </font>

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

is there anthing wrong with folding to the raise on the flop?

in fact.... is this one of those times you should not c-bet?

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

What hand is calling river that makes river value-bet good? You gave us no reads. I mean, have you seen him raise flop with a flush draw and call river with 7-hi? Cuz that's what we are hoping for.

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

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is there anthing wrong with folding to the raise on the flop?

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Yes

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in fact.... is this one of those times you should not c-bet?

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This is a standard flop bet.

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

yeah not a fan of this line. although i will admit i have takin this at several times but we need to find out a couple things about the player before this will pay off

will he call a turn but fold a river? will he call down a pf raiser with just ace high

i dont think we know enough to be able to make this play, i raise pf and the c/c after flop IF!! he bets

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

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is there anthing wrong with folding to the raise on the flop?

in fact.... is this one of those times you should not c-bet?

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With 2 opponents on a paired board you should generally be betting anything you raised preflop with.

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

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I haven't played fullring or .25/.50 in awhile, but they always bet a draw and never fold a pair on the turn where I play, so I just check/call down. On the river I would check/call to give a draw or maybe a hand like 66 a chance to bluff.

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QFT

Edited to add: There is actually some bluff equity out there even at microlimits. You just have to find the right spots.

If he is WtSD of 60%, dont bluff im. If he is like WtSD 20% (and, of course, including a VPIP of 30%), try to bluff him off the better hand.
Thats my 2 cents.

For instance: I was playing .50/1 6max the one day. Button, the first in, raised, SB folded, I called with A8s.
I put BT on a relatively narrow range, like a good ace or a premium hand (no PT stats).
Flop: 997: He bet, I called.
Turn: 4. He bet turn, I called.
River: 6 or something. I bet river, he folded.

Re: AJ, bad line?
 

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For instance: I was playing .50/1 6max the one day. Button, the first in, raised, SB folded, I called with A8s.
I put BT on a relatively narrow range, like a good ace or a premium hand (no PT stats).
Flop: 997: He bet, I called.
Turn: 4. He bet turn, I called.
River: 6 or something. I bet river, he folded.

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It's possible you had the best hand. Most players aren't folding a better ace there for 1 bet against a river donk. I don't really like it without a good read. You don't give him a chance to bluff his JT, and you don't give him a chance to check behind a better ace if he's not folding it.