66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

15/30 Hawaiian Gardens
BB is loose passive, will bet TPTK or better, calls down light. MP is aggressive, with some odd betting tendencies that I don't quite have a handle on yet, but is definitely a thinking player.

Preflop:
2 limpers, hero calls 66 in the CO, SB completes, BB checkes.

Flop: 5 players, 10sb
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB checks, 1 fold, MP bets, hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

I put the bettor on TP, and figured I wanted the caller in with a 10 or a weak Ace in case I filled up when someone hit trips. Planned on popping the turn.

Bad spot to wait? Decent? Read dependent?

This hand played out very differently then I think it would at lower limits, so I wanted to check it with a couple of you medium stakes guys.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

Its a 5-way pot, just juice it now on the flop.

Also, caller could have KJ, 78, 89, or possibly even KQ.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

I would have raised MP on the flop. I don't want SB or BB to get a single bet call with a gut shot and/or back door flush. I especially don't want both to call with different gut shot draws...

Because I raise a lot on the flop with 2nd pair good kicker, I tend to get callers for two bets who have top pair. Once they call two on the flop, they will often call through the river.

I have lost too many slow played sets to gutshots to do it anymore with a board like this.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

OTOH, bettor is aggressive and will likely fire again on the turn, where hero can choose to raise. There's nothing to say the loose blind will not call two small bets anyway for a gut-shot. Rainbow board with the aggressive guy on his right, it's a prety good spot to wait. It will also redound to his benefit on future hands where hero is not as strong but wants to get to the river against Mr. Aggressive.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

Eh, I've been slowplaying very little these days with outstanding results, usually a 3 bet by villian or even a turn c/r which I can 3 bet.

I kinda favor raises here pf. If I have loose blinds who will call any two and 2-3 limpers in front of me, I've been raising almost any pp pf, esp if it will buy me the button.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

I'd just raise it now. If MP really is a thinking player, then you calling this dry flop and raising the turn is going to set off alarm bells and he might even dump an A to your turn raise. The best way, imo, to get action from aggressive players is to put in a lot of action on the early streets where they like to splash around. If he's got something decent, he might even 3-bet you on the flop and you can still get in a turn raise.

The other players probably don't have much and this is a tough flop for even loose players to peel with, and often they'll call 2 bets with whatever trash they'll call 1 bet with.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

i think there is nothing wrong with slowpaying this hand. u also dont want this pot heads up. There is no flush draw on the Flop. only think that beats u is a gutshot. Plus when u fill up on the turn and some1 hits trips. you will get more action. and if they do pick up their redraw flush draw. mp1 will bet. you will 2 bet and he will cold call 2 and miss 80% of the time. You Want him in there with a redraw

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
15/30 Hawaiian Gardens
BB is loose passive, will bet TPTK or better, calls down light. MP is aggressive, with some odd betting tendencies that I don't quite have a handle on yet, but is definitely a thinking player.

Preflop:
2 limpers, hero calls 66 in the CO, SB completes, BB checkes.

Flop: 5 players, 10sb
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB checks, 1 fold, MP bets, hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

I put the bettor on TP, and figured I wanted the caller in with a 10 or a weak Ace in case I filled up when someone hit trips. Planned on popping the turn.

Bad spot to wait? Decent? Read dependent?

This hand played out very differently then I think it would at lower limits, so I wanted to check it with a couple of you medium stakes guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the way you did it. You don't want to make it two bets to the other guys on a rainbow flop with an ace up there. You'll scare them away. Plus, if one of the guys yet to act flopped two pair he may check raise and give you a chance to 3 bet. On a draw heavy board I raise the flop, but here I play it like you did.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

given that you think bb is loose, raising the flop is what i would recommend--there a good chance he will call two small bets...by raising you swell the pot, making it much more likely someone will call all the way to showdown, perhaps both players...

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Eh, I've been slowplaying very little these days with outstanding results, usually a 3 bet by villian or even a turn c/r which I can 3 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I almost never slowplay unless it's blatantly obvious. Get the money in while they're willing to put it in.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

Thanks, it sounds like my suspicion that I should probably have popped it on the flop is favored about 2:1 here.

Results were unfortunate, and I wanted to be sure I wasn't just being results oriented.

For anyone who is interested MP was betting the 78 gutshot with a backdoor flush draw. BB called with the SAME 78 gutshot. A 9 fell on the turn. Not sure what the heck MP was doing betting into this flop.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, it sounds like my suspicion that I should probably have popped it on the flop is favored about 2:1 here.

Results were unfortunate, and I wanted to be sure I wasn't just being results oriented.

For anyone who is interested MP was betting the 78 gutshot with a backdoor flush draw. BB called with the SAME 78 gutshot. A 9 fell on the turn. Not sure what the heck MP was doing betting into this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually dont mind his bet. Its checked to him and no one raised pf. All he really has to get past is you and if he gets raised or checkraised then he can peel for his 4 outer and be done with it. I think he takes this pot down on the flop in his position enough to make this bet profitable. Also, if he gets past you and one one of the blinds or limpers calls he can reevaluate and take a free card or take the pot down w/ a bet ui.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, it sounds like my suspicion that I should probably have popped it on the flop is favored about 2:1 here.

Results were unfortunate, and I wanted to be sure I wasn't just being results oriented.

For anyone who is interested MP was betting the 78 gutshot with a backdoor flush draw. BB called with the SAME 78 gutshot. A 9 fell on the turn. Not sure what the heck MP was doing betting into this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually dont mind his bet. Its checked to him and no one raised pf. All he really has to get past is you and if he gets raised or checkraised then he can peel for his 4 outer and be done with it. I think he takes this pot down on the flop in his position enough to make this bet profitable. Also, if he gets past you and one one of the blinds or limpers calls he can reevaluate and take a free card or take the pot down w/ a bet ui.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have said I didn't know what he was doing, since I came to the same conclusion as you after thinking about it.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

Definitely wait for a few reasons.

1) You don't want to drive out a loose/chasing call from the SB and BB. You would prefer the SB and BB chase with weak hands like middle pair and then hit trips/two pair on the turn.

2) Letting someone see a cheap turn doesn't seem too dangerous. Only a gut-shot kills you.

3) He is likely betting out a weak ace or middle pair. (It seems unlikely he is holding AK-AQ, given the preflop action) You don't want to drive him off KT-T9, or Axs, and when he hits two pair or trips on the turn, you are probably going to score several extra big bets.

Re: 66 hits set - wait or raise?
 

Typically it's correct to just fast play bottom set in a big field with any kind of draws on board. Best anyone could be drawing to here (realistically speaking) is a gutshot. Clearly it's different if the board is 2 suited on the flop.

I like your thinking on someone having a T or weak A stay in on the flop and raising the turn. It's slightly risky but could reap bigger rewards.

Any thoughts if the flop gets raised behind you?