any homebrewers?
 

I am brewing my first batch of homebrew and looking for some help. I am doing an English Nut Brown Ale. I have been reading about secondary fermintation. Some are saying to leave it in the first bucket for up to 3 weeks, others are saying to rack it for the last two weeks in a glass carboy. Is there anything I need to know about syphoning it to the second container, some one told me to add a little water if necessary to have less of an air pocket at the top of the second container. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

If you have a secondary carboy, then yes, use it. General rule is 1 week in primary, 2 weeks in secondary and at least 3 in bottles. Siphon gently, you don't want to introduce oxygen to the beer at this point.

Check out www.homebrewtalk.com, its a great forum and you will get better answers than I can give. Good Luck and enjoy.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

I wouldn't worry too much about waiting a specific set of time, but wait until it bubbles very little before you rack it.

My very first batch, I didn't wait long enough to rack it, and I didn't have a hops bag when I cooked the wort, so I transferred a bunch of floating hops into a smaller container - that was still fermenting vigorously... Bad idea. Foam and hops bubbled into my airlock.. gumming up the whole works. Pressure built, and I found it had blown up. Beer on my ceiling.. and everywhere. Not pretty.

All I can say is that if you make a mistake, keep with it.. do another batch. You'll learn from your errors... good luck, I'm sure it'll come out fine.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

I rack it to a carboy once the fermentation slows to a crawl. I tend to leave things in secondary a bit longer than I need to, but it depends on hydrometer readings and when I want the batch done.

As far as headspace in the carboy goes, I've never worried about it too much. If you have a ton of extra space, you may have not had enough water in primary, or maybe you have a 6.8 gallon carboy.
I've heard of some people using glass beads/pie weights to make up for smaller amounts of excess headspace.
Enjoy your home brewing. If I can give one piece of advice for a new brewer...clean clean clean. Sanitizer is your friend!

Re: any homebrewers?
 

First, www.brewboard.com is another great online resource.

Second, lots of people don't even bother with secondary. Since you probably don't care how clear your beer is going to be, I wouldn't bother. Just go straight from primary into the bottling bucket into bottles.

In general, you don't want to move it from primary until fermentation has more or less stopped, which you can tell from your hydrometer readings. It may drop a couple more points in secondary, no big deal. Do NOT add water when you transfer, that's just begging for an infection. The reason that headspace may be a worry is that you don't want to oxidize your beer, since that'll cause long-term stability and flavor problems. It's never a worry in primary because the fermentation is throwing off so much CO2. It should still be throwing some in secondary, so it isn't a huge deal, but I'd always go with the tightest-fitting fermenter I had for secondary. All in all, I'd rather take a chance on an extra couple inches of headspace than watering down my beer and risking an infection ruining the whole batch.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

I don't bother with the secondary. There is too much risk of spoiling the beer with infection. My usual fermentation is 2 weeks in the primary, then bottling.

If anyone wants hops plants, I have whole backyard full of them. I will send you rhizomes.

Also, if anyone wants to trade beers, I would be happy to do that. I have a 6 pack mailer with foam padding.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is there anything I need to know about syphoning it to the second container, some one told me to add a little water if necessary to have less of an air pocket at the top of the second container. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]


Congratulations on your first batch!

Siphon quietly. Avoid splashing at all cost. Oxygenation at this point can be and usually is a disaster.

The purpose of secondary fermentation is to remove the beer from the sediment at the bottom of the fermenter. A good portion of this stuff is yeast that has done it's fermentation work and has settled out. If the beer stays in contact with the sediment for an extended period (a few weeks, maybe) the yeast will start adding flavors to your beer that many folks find undesirable.

Don't worry too much about the head space in your secondary contributing unwanted oxygen to your beer. The residual yeast in the beer is still actively giving off CO2. And since CO2 id heavier than air it will quickly replace any air in the headspace as long as you have a working fermentation lock.

If you do end up adding water to your beer, be sure to boil all the nasties and chlorine out. Or use bottled water.

Let us know how things turn out.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
My usual fermentation is 2 weeks in the primary, then bottling.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto for me, though my homebrewing is done at the most basic of levels. I do little experimentation, etc, it's just kind of a fun little hobby for me.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

Thanks for all the great advice, looks like somewhat split on secondary. I have seen so much about keeping everything clean and preventing oxygen from getting in, has anyone ever had a batch go bad? I have not read of anyone who has. If I syphon, should I take the lid off the primary, or try to do it through the vent hole? Is the risk really that great in a transfer?

Re: any homebrewers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
<snip> has anyone ever had a batch go bad? I have not read of anyone who has. If I syphon, should I take the lid off the primary, or try to do it through the vent hole? Is the risk really that great in a transfer?

[/ QUOTE ]

Never had a batch go bad. A friend that had a bad batch credits the experience for his attention to cleanliness 100 batches later.

Remove the fermenter lid when siphoning. Sanitize your siphoning hose. Be gentle and don't splash the beer.

Don't forget to taste your beer during racking.

Finally, to quote Charlie Papazian : "Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew."

Re: any homebrewers?
 

I try to be surgical clean with my brewing procedures, especially since I'm often making fruit wines and not going through a long boil as with beer.
Don't worry about trying to syphon through the vent hole, take the lid off. I tend to set the lid on the bucket, just pushed over enough for the racking cane to get in.
Going into secondary, you should probably worry more about oxygen than contaminates, since the beer does have alcohol in it now.

Oh, and I currently have a batch of strawberry wine in secondary (Needs to be racked again I think) What to my fellow brewers have going?

Re: any homebrewers?
 

I just finished a California style ale. I have in inventory several stouts, an apricot ale and a red ale. My next batch will be a stout.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I currently have a batch of strawberry wine in secondary (Needs to be racked again I think) What to my fellow brewers have going?

[/ QUOTE ]

Strawberry wine sounds intriguing. Is the recipe strawberry juice, water, yeast, and sugar? Or is it more complicated? What type of yeast do you use? How often does it need racking? How soon is it drinkable?

There is a bock in secondary yearning to be bottled. I am lazy and the garage is cold enough for lagering, so it may wait another day or two. And I just bottled a blackberry porter that is sublime. Fresh (frozen) blackberries are the key to happiness [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Next up: mead, IPA, and American brown, not necessarily in that order...

Re: any homebrewers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Strawberry wine sounds intriguing. Is the recipe strawberry juice, water, yeast, and sugar? Or is it more complicated? What type of yeast do you use? How often does it need racking? How soon is it drinkable?

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The recipe is fairly simple, aside from dealing with a large amount of fruit. I got the recipe here: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques5.asp (I used the second recipe, but made 5 gallons)
The recipe calls for it to be racked 5 times. I used a sweet wine yeast. It should be drinkable within a year. (It better be, since I'm making it for a friends wedding in September)

Blackberry porter sounds crazy good.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

blackberry porter does sound good. Recipe?

I've got my first lager fermenting right now.. a maibock.. and an imperial ipa that I brewed with a little bit of orange peel.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
blackberry porter does sound good. Recipe?

[/ QUOTE ]

My goal was to have the porter and fruit flavors complement each other w/ neither being dominant. I used a lower hopping rate and fewer adjunct grains than I normally do for a porter so the fruit wouldn't be overwhelmed. For the same reason I avoided finishing hops and dry-hopping. It seems to have worked since the beer smells and tastes of fresh fruit with a roasty, malty backbone.


For 5 gallons:

10 oz. 20L crystal malt
2 oz. black patent malt
10 oz. chocolate malt
4 oz. cara-pils

4 lb. light dry extract
2 lb. amber dry extract

5 lb. blackberries (picked in the back yard, then frozen)

1 oz. Willamette (5.5% AAU, whole) 60 min
1/2 oz. Kent Goldings (5.7%, pellet) 30 minutes
1/2 oz. Kent Goldings (5.7%, pellet) 15 minutes

White Labs English Yeast (#002)

OG = 1.052
FG = 1.014


Freezing the fruit helps break down the cell walls and release the juice. I added the fruit to the secondary fermenter and let it go for a couple weeks.

The FG was little higher than I was hoping for, but it turns out the residual sweetness matches well with the blackberry flavor. This ain't soda pop but it sure is easy to drink.

[ QUOTE ]
I've got my first lager fermenting right now.. a maibock.. and an imperial ipa that I brewed with a little bit of orange peel.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have always enjoyed the citrus flavors contributed by some hop strains. Have you brewed with orange peel before? I imagine orange peel takes it to a new level.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

Orange peel is good. Use a scraper to just get the orange outside and not the white layer that is below it that is bitter. I have used orange peel and coriander together in belgium triples.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

I am thinking about getting either a Cooper's Home Microbrewery kit, or a Mr. Beer kit...

Any one try either of these?

I've done extensive searching and found that purists look down on the Mr. Beer kit but those who use it seem to have no problems making good beer. In fact, there are online communities/forums for people who use the Mr. Beer kit filled with different recipes and tips.

But, on the other hand, the Coopers kit is supposedly very good and seems to get top notch ratings on Amazon.com.

The issue is that I live in a small apartment and need something that will take up the very minimum in space. I think a regular home kit is going to be too big and bulky for me to store.

So yeah, anyone try the coopers kit or the mr. beer kit?

Re: any homebrewers?
 

I'm sure you can make a decent brew in a Mr Beer kit, but I'm not going to try it to find out.
I would suggest finding a local home brew shop. Every one I've ever been to has basic kits in the $50-100 range. You don't need much fancy stuff, and it'll all fit inside the 5 gallon fermenting bucket.

The basic kit here: http://northernbrewer.com/starterkits.html is more than adequate for $68. Better deals can probably be found online and locally.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I have always enjoyed the citrus flavors contributed by some hop strains. Have you brewed with orange peel before? I imagine orange peel takes it to a new level.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got my orange peel from the brew store. With high-end ipa's, I've noticed a bit of a citrus flavor, I thought I'd heighten those flavors by mixing some in. If I was more prepared, I'd probably try using grapefruit... but not so much to overpower the beer.. just something for undertones.. maybe dry-hopping with grapefruit zest would do the same thing.

I'll see how it comes out. Half the fun of homebrewing is experimenting.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

Bald,

I live in a pretty small apartment. There's hardly enough room in the kitchen for two people, and I'm still able to make beer with minimal problems.

The thing is, the boiling part of the beer takes stove-top space, and the fermenting part takes... well, however much beer you made. If you make a 5 gallon batch, you're going to need just a bit more than 5 gallons worth of space. Maybe you've heard that Mr. Beer takes up less room, which is true, but that's because the fermenter is 2 gallons. Making small batches is fine, but 1) if you have room for the mostly-horizontal Mr. Beer fermenter, I bet you have room for a 5-gallon bucket, and 2) there's a reason most homebrewers eventually move to doing 10-gallon batches: it takes a minimal amount of extra effort to make 10 gallons as it does to make 2.

When you're doing extract, as in a Mr. Beer kit or most other starter kits, you basically boil your water and extract, adding hops as you go, cool it down so the yeast you throw in don't die, and then sit it in a corner for a couple weeks. Seen that way, how much space you need is dependent on how much you make and how much will fit in your corner, not whether you use Mr. Beer or whatever.

For me, it comes down to whether I want to spend a few hours making 2 gallons of beer or 5 gallons or 10 gallons. If you buy a Mr. Beer fermenter and a food-grade bucket, and use the same process and ingredients, theoretically you'll come out with identical beers (after all, Mr. Beer's gimmicky brown plastic barrel is just a food-grade bucket). The difference is that you'll have 2 gallons of said beer coming from the Mr. Beer setup, and 5+ from your other setup.

Besides negligible or non-existent differences in footprint and difficulty, there are a number of reasons you'd be better off with a starter kit like the one linked from northernbrewer. But in any case, spend a few minutes on basic research, and then go to your local shop and talk to somebody. They'll be more than happy to help.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

whoah. I just had a "6 minute abs!" moment.

I've been doing 5 gallons this whole time, and actually split it with my buddy (it's like a little man-night get together for us).

when you do 10, do you buy 10 gallon equipment? or 2 sets of 5 gallon equipment?

Re: any homebrewers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
whoah. I just had a "6 minute abs!" moment.

I've been doing 5 gallons this whole time, and actually split it with my buddy (it's like a little man-night get together for us).

when you do 10, do you buy 10 gallon equipment? or 2 sets of 5 gallon equipment?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right now I brew with a friend who just happened to have his own equipment. Every time we brew, we make 2 styles.. and split the beer. So, I still end up with 5 gals, but with 2 different styles of beer. If one beer goes bad or something happens.. it's unlikely both go bad. It's a sweet setup.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

I'd like to add a not on siphoning. I had an auto siphon but I broke it. I prefer not to use it anyways as my method is fast and effective.

With everything sanitized fill the siphoning tube with water. Put your thumb over the end of the tube beer will flow out of. Bend the top of the tube as much as it needs to be so you can insert it into the carboy/bucket without your hand touching the beer. Remove thumb and as soon as beer is flowing and not water move the pour from a bowl to whatever the desired receptacle is.

This may be standard practice, but I suck started my first few batches, which wasn't easy as I tried to find ways to avoid mouth-hose contact.

My first brew was also a nut brown. I've never had a batch go bad, but my nut brown was my only failure. I bought all my equipment used from somebody at work. Bottling night happened post midnight on the night before a hiking trip. I had some friends over who were helping bottle and organize gear for 16 people. It was then that we realized my capper didn't work with the bottles I had been given. It was too late to go buy beer to make empties, so my first batch went to waste.

Moral of the story: Don't use that crappy wing-nut looking capper. Buy the stand with the pull down arm, or keg.

Good luck and happy brewing.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

Rundown,

Yeah, I suppose it's not a huge difference in space between the 2 gallon Mr. Beer and the 5 Gallon system. But, I have no need for 5 or 10 gallons of beer! Although I really enjoy beer, I don't drink all that often. I figure I can try more recipes and get more variety if I'm making 2 gallon batches. In fact, I think I would prefer a smaller system just so that the batches don't have to be so big. But, alas, the only small kit I've seen is the Mr. Beer kit.

<lightbulb>I suppose I could buy a regular kit and just make smaller batches though! Right???

Also, another question... How long does this homemade beer keep for?

Re: any homebrewers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
when you do 10, do you buy 10 gallon equipment? or 2 sets of 5 gallon equipment?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's all about the boil. Most people that do more than 5 gallons split the batch into a couple fermenters, but the boil all takes place in the same vessel. If you're still on the stove, I really doubt you're going to be able to bring 13 or so gallons up to a boil. Lots of people use a commercial keg that has had the top sliced off and a valve added (a keggle) and a propane burner and brew outside. I have a 15-gallon pot as opposed to a keggle. When you start doing the bigger volumes, it pays to think about the physics before you decide what boil kettle to get. By "physics," I mean, "How am I going to move this 100-pound pot full of boiling wort around so I can cool it and get it in my fermenter?"

Other than physically being able to hold the volume and bring it to a boil, it's the same to do 5 gallons or 10 gallons or 10 barrels.

[ QUOTE ]
But, I have no need for 5 or 10 gallons of beer!

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That's fine, and lots of people do smaller batches. A pro brewer with Sierra Nevada is experimenting with brewing a single bottle of beer. But don't be daunted by numbers, either. Keep in mind that two gallons is going to be ~20 12-ounce bottles and 5 gallons is going to be ~48 12-ounce bottles. You'll typically get a bit less beer into the bottle than the total volume in your fermenter because coagulated proteins, dead/inactive yeast, etc, drops to the bottom of your fermenter and forms a sludgy mess known as the trub. And nobody bottles the trub.

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose I could buy a regular kit and just make smaller batches though! Right???


[/ QUOTE ]Yes... with a sort of qualification. You don't want a fermenter that's tooooo big for your volume of fermenting beer. You do want some excess room, as the wort (unfermented beer) will be generating a bunch of CO2 and foaming up, so you either need enough headspace in the fermenter to contain it or a way for it to blow off, as Govment Cheese discovered in the third or so post in this thread. At the same time, you wouldn't want to ferment one gallon of beer in a 40-gallon fermenter, because there'd be too much room and not enough CO2 generated. I'd think 2-3 gallons in a 5-gallon bucket would be just fine. I've never done it, but I can't imagine that'd be a problem.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, another question... How long does this homemade beer keep for?

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Just as long as any other unpasteurized beer, which many microbrews are. Assuming you don't have any infections or oxidization problems, your beer will be fine for months. Even after that, it will be "ok" in the sense of perfectly fine to drink, but the taste will start to mellow then dull the longer it sits after a certain point. The higher the ABV and the more hops, generally the longer until peak flavor. Something like your nut brown will probably be best to drink within 6 months; a monster 10% American Barleywine will probably not be great until it has sat for a couple months, and won't peak until 9-12 months out. Part of the fun is tasting your beer over intervals and seeing how it changes.

Re: any homebrewers?
 

I have fermented apple cider in their gallon jugs by getting a rubber stopper to fit and rigging up a blow out tube in the hole. Hard cider is good.