Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

OK, this was my first time playing $3/$6 HORSE haven't played much 2/4, but as I changed my level of playing from 440BB to 300BB, I can now play at this level on stars.

When going up a level, I try and play the stud games first and see how it goes before hitting any long session. Anyway, Here, I don't have any reads.

I'm more interested on my thought process and if I'm thinking wrongly.

HORSE - 7 Card Stud High ($3/$6), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.67 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

I normally don't play 3 to a straight, but here thought with only one over card and two flush cards, I would call. I thought about coming in for a raise, but decided against. I thought the Q may raise being the highest remaining card, so called to see where 4th would take me.

4th Street - (4.00 SB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises

Hitting the 10 gave me a very good pair, with 3 to a flush and straight. Seat 5 raise I took as a standard raise to get the pot heads up against maybe just a Q high. Not sure if calling was right here. A raise may have knocked out the Q or given him the chance to re-raise.

5th Street - (5.00 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls

I tookl the Q checking (and just calling on the previous street as not being a pair). I raised just to knock him out. I figured that seat 5 either hit his pocket pair for trips or had 2 pairs ( at best 9 up).

6th Street - (9.00 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

River - (11.00 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___folds

Was this correct to bet on the end? A check/call may have induced a bluff and an extra bet.

Total pot: (11.00 BB)

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

I like it. As long as you didn't put him on trips you played it nicely. Raising to get him out of the pot was what you want to do. I don't agree with 6th. You already got seat 4 out of the pot, a check here will generally give you a free card seeing as how seat 5 will not be making a bet due to your raise on 5th. Betting the river is fine because you made two pair.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

I like river bet, he won't raise without at least king high flush because it looks like you have a good combo draw on 5th. Villian won't bet river very often.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

i fold this on 3rd.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

I like a raise on 3rd....or a fold

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

Third's a fold. Using Roy West's rule of thumb, if we count "near" cards (Queen and Eight) as one point, and "not-so-near" cards (King and Seven) as a half-point, you've got three points. You need 1.5 or fewer to make this a playable hand. A two-flush with two clubs gone is nowhere near enough to swing this to a call.

Your hand looks very pretty on fourth street, but a number of your straight and flush cards are gone. Between the bettor and the raiser, there's an excellent chance that you're in third place. I don't think the call is completely horrible, but I do think that folding is better.

I wouldn't necessarily interpret Q6's call on fourth as weakness. He's said that he has a pair of Queens, and the other guy has said that he has Queens beaten. This will cause a lot of people to shut down. They check, but they don't necessarily fold. Meanwhile, you've caught a terrible card. I think fifth is a fold as well.

No one folds sixth street, and I don't think you're winning. I'd check and hope. I think that the value-bet on the river is fine.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

On third, you have a medium three-straight with four dead straight cards in sight and a two-flush with two more of your suit out. This has got to be a fold unless you're stealing (it's a non-standard steal position, but you could try), and if you're stealing you have to complete. Limp/call is the worst possible option.

I like the other streets okay, though you could possibly represent a four-flush/broadway draw with a raise on Fourth and gain some fold equity if you catch another [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or big card.

I would have thrown this away for free on Third.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

[ QUOTE ]
On third, you have a medium three-straight with four dead straight cards in sight and a two-flush with two more of your suit out. This has got to be a fold unless you're stealing (it's a non-standard steal position, but you could try), and if you're stealing you have to complete. Limp/call is the worst possible option.

I like the other streets okay, though you could possibly represent a four-flush/broadway draw with a raise on Fourth and gain some fold equity if you catch another [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or big card.

I would have thrown this away for free on Third.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm raising to try to steal primarily, either now or by 5th. If i have no reason to think i can do that then i fold.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

andy is right, 3rd is a fold, I wasn't paying attention to the dead sraight cards.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Third's a fold. Using Roy West's rule of thumb, if we count "near" cards (Queen and Eight) as one point, and "not-so-near" cards (King and Seven) as a half-point, you've got three points. You need 1.5 or fewer to make this a playable hand. A two-flush with two clubs gone is nowhere near enough to swing this to a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the comments. I didn't just play for the stragh but had over-cards if the queen folded.

I think after the comments i should have folded on 3rd as this wins more time in the long run.

I think I heard Roy Wests name being mentioned in a previous thread. I assume he has also written a decent 7CS book

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

I don't recommend the West book myself, but it's better than nothing.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't recommend the West book myself, but it's better than nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would you recommend? I have read "Winning 7CS" by A. Adams, which isn't great. Also, A7CS by David. S and have SS which has a bit on 7CS by Chip.

Any other books that would give an ionsight to starting hands and how the values change with cards out?

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have thrown this away for free on Third.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

7CS4AP is the best stud book out there. Chip's section in S/S is also very good. I only ever got about halfway through the Adams book and was underwhelmed.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

Hi Tinkerman!

Let the pros say what they like about Roy West's book. It's good solid advice that the majority of players at lower limits are not heeding. I'll lend you my copy if you ever venture to the Walrus on a Monday night.

C'ya.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Tinkerman!

Let the pros say what they like about Roy West's book. It's good solid advice that the majority of players at lower limits are not heeding. I'll lend you my copy if you ever venture to the Walrus on a Monday night.

C'ya.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the offer Rachel, I've already ordered a copy from the net, as I expect it'll do not harm reading another point of view and hopefully re-inforcing text I've seen elsewhere.

Never been to the Walrus and its hard to make a Monday. Now with the smoking ban, are you going to make the lodge, we had a £20 HORSE last Friday.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

[ QUOTE ]
we had a £20 HORSE last Friday.

[/ QUOTE ]

they play live limit poker in the UK???!!! i'm stuck with the NLHE donkements every thursday at my local british legion...not complaining though since its decent money-for me anyways [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. just gets a bit boring playing the same game all the time-but listening to the bad beat stories they tell me gets me everytime, i try to convince them there is no luck in poker but they always laugh at me like im the idiot [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]. i guess thats what limit poker does for you though - it makes you understand what poker really is.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

I thought that smoking bans were an American phenomenon.

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

Yeah I really wanted to play the horse tourney but was ill that night. Next time. Did you win?

Re: Stud hi - thoughts on playing 3 2 a straight.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I really wanted to play the horse tourney but was ill that night. Next time. Did you win?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I hit all the cards with the small blinds and didn't lose a hand. Made the final table (16 runners) and then tilted a bit as put in SB in O8. The cards never came:( Good fun though.

As for limit in the UK, there isn't any here, though this is a bit of a one off. Well hope to be done monthly. Myself and Rachel are part of the London Poker meetup which is the 3rd or 4th largest in the world. There is normally games going on either NLHE or PLO8 or other variations.

Look up APPAT.com and see that there are national and regional games going on. Next August APPAT is holding a live RAZZ and a live Stud game in London.

The smoking ban makes a big difference, though the doors are kept open for smokers to keep nipping out and having a [censored], though it makes the room a bit chilly