Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Cliff's Notes: The Absolute Poker cheaters are part of an inside job - either a rogue employee (bad apple) or rogue company (bad orchard).


Long Version:
1) During a tournament played by cheater 'Potripper,' the person who ended up coming second ("Marco") thought he was cheated. He emailed Absolute, and they sent him a hand history file - an XLS file.

2) Marco opened up this file, it seemed all gibberish to him, and he didn't think anything of it.

3) First Absolute Poker scandal blow up - PT screenshots, etc. Graphical representation here: http://www.absolutepokercheats.com/vpipvbb.jpg

4) Fortnight passes

5) In passing discussion, Marco mentions he has this file. He shares it with a few people, including N 80 50 24(pokerdb.com maintainer, maker of The Poker Film, part owner of Bluff Media) who analyses what is in this file

6) Nat (N 80 50 24) & 2p2 poster Snagglepuss discover that this file is a complete hand history for the tournament - showing every table, and all hole cards of every player.

Hand histories here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0&fpart=1
View Video here (free registration required)


7) Big excitement over #6

8) In further analysis, Nat + Snagglepuss discovers that this file contains IP addresses and user details (including email addresses) of people observing the table

9) In #8, they discover user #363 is observing PotRipper's table the whole time

10) At the start of the tournament, for the two hands that user #363 is not observing the table, Potripper folds preflop. He doesn't fold another hand pre-flop for 20minutes, when he open-folds with KK held by a player behind him.

11) The IP address recorded for user #363 tracks out to be a user who uses email on an Absolute Poker server hosted by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission (More info here)

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

need more popcorn

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

vw written Josem.

I am eagerly awaiting SOMETHING from AP. I feel like we need to get this out there to the public more, but that is obvious and I am sure people are doing their best.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Do we have any evidence that user #363 is the only superaccount? IMO this number is disturbingly large to apply to an account with this sort of power, any idea as to how many other superaccounts could be in use or could have been used in the past?

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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Do we have any evidence that user #363 is the only superaccount?

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It seems to me that this is self-evidently impossible to prove.

After all, there is always the chance that a particular superaccount has never been used before.

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IMO this number is disturbingly large to apply to an account with this sort of power, any idea as to how many other superaccounts could be in use or could have been used in the past?

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This would be pure speculation. There's no evidence that other accounts have been used - although, if someone has more of the Absolute HHs from other play by the cheaters, that may change.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Its not that large if u keep in mind beta testing a tournament requires a lot of accounts.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

link to other thread bc that was some sherlock holmes type [censored].

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do we have any evidence that user #363 is the only superaccount? IMO this number is disturbingly large to apply to an account with this sort of power, any idea as to how many other superaccounts could be in use or could have been used in the past?

[/ QUOTE ]

The relatively high user number should not suggest that this is not a superuser. Depending on the robustness of the software development practices many testing accounts with different access privileges could have been created on the fly.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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Its not that large if u keep in mind beta testing a tournament requires a lot of accounts.

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True, but im guessing the sort of testing this account was designed for would have been done well before the beta stage. Having 362 other accounts created before this presumably very early stage of testing lends credence to the possibility that there could be a number of other accounts, probably inactive, with this type of ability. As Josem says though, it is purely specualtive and basically impossible to prove without another monumental screwup from Absolute Poker.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Good concise summary.

A few other points:

-As has been mentioned above, the account with user id #363 was likely created before Absolute went public, further pointing to the fact it was an inside job.

-A good hypothetical timeline for how things played out written by Dan Druff can be found here. There is a decent amount of speculation in this link but it all fits the evidence nicely.

- http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...2&fpart=all is the thread started on 9/21 some days after the story first broke with a good summary of why experienced internet poker players who have examined the evidence (nearly) unanimously agreed this was a case of cheating long before the latest developments.

-More good links and info can be found at http://www.absolutepokercheats.com/statisticalanalysis (site referenced in op, but there is a lot of other good info here).

-AP has blatantly lied throughout, saying they carried out an investigation and that no cheating occurred. While it remains technically possible AP is really this daft, the far more likely explanation is that they are covering this up.

-P5s has severed advertising links with Absolute as explained in this post on P5s. In this post, the P5 admin Adam says that he has been on the phone with Absolute and that they are still professing their innocence, even offering Adam access to their "office and systems". Bonus whores (an influential bonus information site) has blacklisted them (see http://www.bonuswhores.com/blacklisted-sites.php).

Thats all I can think of for now.

Edit: One other important thing from the other thread is that cardplayer has talked to TheWacoKid about doing an interview, and Nat mentioned Bluff will likely write something about this too, which he will get to review.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do we have any evidence that user #363 is the only superaccount? IMO this number is disturbingly large to apply to an account with this sort of power, any idea as to how many other superaccounts could be in use or could have been used in the past?

[/ QUOTE ]

The relatively high user number should not suggest that this is not a superuser. Depending on the robustness of the software development practices many testing accounts with different access privileges could have been created on the fly.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, and this is what worries me.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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need more popcorn

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QFT.

In all seriousness, I've been starting to follow this more closely the last couple days. Very interesting stuff and I want to give a collective 'thank you' and 'nice work' to everyone who has been working on this.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do we have any evidence that user #363 is the only superaccount? IMO this number is disturbingly large to apply to an account with this sort of power, any idea as to how many other superaccounts could be in use or could have been used in the past?

[/ QUOTE ]

The relatively high user number should not suggest that this is not a superuser. Depending on the robustness of the software development practices many testing accounts with different access privileges could have been created on the fly.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, and this is what worries me.

[/ QUOTE ]

it worries me in regards to other sites too. hopefully i'm just being a tin-foil-hat weirdo, but it seems that other sites would go through some of the same processes that AP did when creating the site in the first place.

who's to say that there aren't these super accounts at other sites? granted i really really really doubt that anything like this would ever happen at stars and if it did, they would probably be a little more honest with us than AP.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
Do we have any evidence that user #363 is the only superaccount? IMO this number is disturbingly large to apply to an account with this sort of power, any idea as to how many other superaccounts could be in use or could have been used in the past?

[/ QUOTE ]

The relatively high user number should not suggest that this is not a superuser. Depending on the robustness of the software development practices many testing accounts with different access privileges could have been created on the fly.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, and this is what worries me.

[/ QUOTE ]

it worries me in regards to other sites too. hopefully i'm just being a tin-foil-hat weirdo, but it seems that other sites would go through some of the same processes that AP did when creating the site in the first place.

who's to say that there aren't these super accounts at other sites? granted i really really really doubt that anything like this would ever happen at stars and if it did, they would probably be a little more honest with us than AP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be very surprised if these types of accounts weren't used in the development of most sites' software programs. The creation of an account like this without the forethought to delete/permanently deactivate it is very surprising, unless perhaps it was still used regularly by AP programmers to test new software updates, new games and the like?

At least this whole episode will likely make the other sites review their own security procedures regarding their superaccounts (if they in fact exist).

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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who's to say that there aren't these super accounts at other sites?

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It's a possibility for sure. These are unregulated sites sometimes with shady owners - no third party is looking at the source code or doing spot inspections. In reality many of these smaller sites consist of nothing but a couple of server racks, low paid customer service workers/coders, and a payment to whatever "gaming commission" they choose to get a logo from. There's no oversight and no one with the power to out them or shut them down.

I would have thought the 8th biggest site would be above this kind of thing, purely from the financial interest side of things...but obviously not

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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I would have thought the 8th biggest site would be above this kind of thing, purely from the financial interest side of things...but obviously not

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If you are referring to gross negligence, lying to customers and laughable security then yes; but if youre referring to some sort of financial motive then i doubt it.

This has been shown to almost certainly be an inside job, but I think it is far more likely to be a rogue a programmer than something that implicates Absolute Poker as a whole... The superaccount, as far as I can see, was created for testing purposes. AP is guilty of massive negligence in not deleting/monitoring this account, but I very much doubt the company as a whole it had any financial interest in it being used to cheat.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

I wonder how ppl are that dumb and cheat in such an obvious way while they. Seriously if I could see my opponents holecards Id just play my normal Game making that extra valuebet bluff and fold every now then and ill have an constant income.

How much was they buyin and how many entrants were there? I really want to know how someone is that stupid.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Obviously every site has employees which are privy to hole card info. Where there are humans there is greed. Unfortunately greed apparently got the best of one Absolute employee.

Hopefully this won't happen anywhere else, but it's obviously a possibility. Anyone who tells you different is lying. I consider it unlikely, but the threat is always there.

Also, Ikestoys, the fact that you are still playing at Absolute after being victimized is unbelieveable. The fact that you are making so much money is no excuse. Have some pride and dignity for yourself. You are a true disgrace to this story. Sometimes making money isn't the most important thing(greed) , which ironically is probably what got us in this mess in the first place.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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I wonder how ppl are that dumb and cheat in such an obvious way while they. Seriously if I could see my opponents holecards Id just play my normal Game making that extra valuebet bluff and fold every now then and ill have an constant income.

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I think he was probably justified in thinking he could get away with a lot, before this any 'poker is rigged' complaints were laughed at by most players, and especially because his massive river agression means you often wouldn't see his cards. Also, the way he was caught (AP accidently sending Marco all the holecards and IPs of players/observers) was very unlikely, leading many to believe that the log was sent deliberately by a whistleblower. Having said that his over-the-top play, expecially the ten-high all-in call in the last hand, was probably a factor in Marco asking for the hand history anyway.

The buyin was $1000 plus fee. I believe there were around 20 players.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously every site has employees which are privy to hole card info. Where there are humans there is greed. Unfortunately greed apparently got the best of one Absolute employee.

Hopefully this won't happen anywhere else, but it's obviously a possibility. Anyone who tells you different is lying. I consider it unlikely, but the threat is always there.

Also, Ikestoys, the fact that you are still playing at Absolute after being victimized is unbelieveable. The fact that you are making so much money is no excuse. Have some pride and dignity for yourself. You are a true disgrace to this story. Sometimes making money isn't the most important thing(greed) , which ironically is probably what got us in this mess in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like looking directly at the sun, if the sun was made entirely of stupid.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

great summary

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

like its been said, good summary...

pretty shocking stuff, but who knows if AP will care to address these issues in any depth, too bad most of their users won't find out too much about this

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Can someone comment on the actual likelihood of an account that was created SO early in the Absolute alpha-testing process (so early as to be account ID 363) CONTINUING to possess "superuser" capabilities over the course of nearly 8 or 10 years (what with all the various software upgrades / fixes, etc)?

It's not that I'm not 100% convinced with all the evidence that we've collected to date. It's just that nearly every explanation given to this point starts with the premise that there's an account that was created VERY early on in the game that has hole-card viewing capability. It's possible that it's the original creator of that account who is a rogue programmer, but more likely that the real rogue guy is a more recently-employed programmer who just "discovered" this older superuser testing account (otherwise we'd have to believe that the original rogue programmer just "sat on" the superuser account for nearly 8 years before exploiting it). But can some systems-admin guys comment on the just how realistic an assumption it is that a testing account that was created 8 whole years ago, when the Absolute software looked and functioned very, very differently than it does now would CONTINUE to "work" through all the various upgrades, patches, software overhauls, etc, that have happened since Absolute's inception?

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Isn't it possible that the account was actually used to help with a lot of the upgrades and overhauls, especially for the introduction of new games as the site gained popularity? If this is the case then having a test-account which is compatible with all the overhauls is neccessary for the upgrades to be developed, tested and introduced in the first place. Absolute did recently had a massive overhaul which could have led to the discovery of the account by a new programmer.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/...howtopic=44393

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great post.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Wow, this sent a shiver down my spine. Some great detective work has gone one here.

FWIW, given how many online casinos there are it would be amazing if this sort of thing never happened ever. Even bank employees have been convicted of supposidly clever transfers from people's accounts in such a way that they may not notice. And banks are, I guess, more heavily regulated than some online casinos. I just hope it gets sorted in a way that leaves no reasonable questions unanswered.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/...howtopic=44393

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great post.

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Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Anyone who doubts the story should read those hand histories - they're very damning.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/...howtopic=44393

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great post.

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Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

The part of this whole thing that really makes me scratch my head is how Marco got this scrambled excel file/master HH list to begin with. I'm basing this off the assumption that this was NOT the standard file sent out when you request the tourney HH's, but that the mistake has coincidentally been made before.

The general consensus is that someone was fed-up and decided to blow the whole thing open. It's perfectly realistic I suppose but it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Possible idea based purely on speculation/imagination:

The higher-ups at absolute knew exactly what happened in the infamous tourney but didn't want the min-wage support people to know anything about it. They took care of the tourney HH request themselves, or let another trusted person take care of it that wasn't used to doing it. They genuinely made a mistake and sent the wrong one-- it was in a scrambled excel file right? This is the only way that it's plausible in my mind that it could possibly be a mistake.

I know, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'm just trying to throw an idea out there.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone comment on the actual likelihood of an account that was created SO early in the Absolute alpha-testing process (so early as to be account ID 363) CONTINUING to possess "superuser" capabilities over the course of nearly 8 or 10 years (what with all the various software upgrades / fixes, etc)?

It's not that I'm not 100% convinced with all the evidence that we've collected to date. It's just that nearly every explanation given to this point starts with the premise that there's an account that was created VERY early on in the game that has hole-card viewing capability. It's possible that it's the original creator of that account who is a rogue programmer, but more likely that the real rogue guy is a more recently-employed programmer who just "discovered" this older superuser testing account (otherwise we'd have to believe that the original rogue programmer just "sat on" the superuser account for nearly 8 years before exploiting it). But can some systems-admin guys comment on the just how realistic an assumption it is that a testing account that was created 8 whole years ago, when the Absolute software looked and functioned very, very differently than it does now would CONTINUE to "work" through all the various upgrades, patches, software overhauls, etc, that have happened since Absolute's inception?

[/ QUOTE ]

Teddy - I know nothing of poker software security, but I do have plenty of experience as an SAP security consultant. In SAP and many other software platforms the "User" is a separate component than their "access" within the system. This is referred to as Role-based Access Control

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-Based_Access_Control

Roles or functions are maintained separately than the Users. Users must be assigned a role to be able to do anything within the system.

Purely speculating, if poker software used RBAC security - there would be a "End-User Role" that would be automatically assigned to every user id created through the normal sign-up process. This role would allow you to log-in to the client, open a table, and perform all the functions necessary to play poker. Similarly, there could be other roles that provide more significant access - a developer role (allows access to source code), super-user role (can do anything), configuration role (allows changes to system settings), etc. The # and different types of roles would match the number of different functions needed to be performed within the system. Ideally, any powerful roles would be monitored closely and only exist within the dev and QA systems.

To avoid ranting too much, if the poker software uses RBAC security, the user may not have been "all-powerful" since the beginning of AP. This could be a support user id that was assigned the "Super-User" role at a later date giving the user id access beyond what it normally has.

Again, this is just a speculative scenario - I have no knowledge if poker software uses the RBAC security methodology.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

HOLY [censored] THEY CAN SEE UR WHOLE CARDS AT ABSOLUT POOKER!?!?!?

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

[ QUOTE ]
The part of this whole thing that really makes me scratch my head is how Marco got this scrambled excel file/master HH list to begin with. I'm basing this off the assumption that this was NOT the standard file sent out when you request the tourney HH's, but that the mistake has coincidentally been made before.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is your error.

It is apparently the standard format absolute uses. Metsandfinsfan has received a similar one a few years ago.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

[ QUOTE ]
But can some systems-admin guys comment on the just how realistic an assumption it is that a testing account that was created 8 whole years ago, when the Absolute software looked and functioned very, very differently than it does now would CONTINUE to "work" through all the various upgrades, patches, software overhauls, etc, that have happened since Absolute's inception?


[/ QUOTE ]

You make a very good point and i'm not a network guy to any extent. But I would think that every upgrade, patch, and overhaul were specifically designed so as not to materially effect previously existing accounts. I dont recall any update from any site causing old accounts to function improperly due to a fundamental change in the system used.

Put another way, back when party was the #1 site, there were many legitamite users on this site who had their accounts for 6 or 7 years. These accounts survived through dozens of updates and never had their playing abilities rendered unfunctional by any of these updates simply because their accounts were old.

As long as no update caused a fundamental change in the way hole cards were transfered users 363's superuser ability would be uneffected.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Holy crap! Thanks for those summary, I had stopped reading the other thread and didn't realize just how much more information came out. Has anyone contacted the Kahnawake Gaming Commission and requested a formal investigation of AP? AP operates under their regulations, no?

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The part of this whole thing that really makes me scratch my head is how Marco got this scrambled excel file/master HH list to begin with. I'm basing this off the assumption that this was NOT the standard file sent out when you request the tourney HH's, but that the mistake has coincidentally been made before.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is your error.

It is apparently the standard format absolute uses. Metsandfinsfan has received a similar one a few years ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

as per Josem's request i just sent him the one i received about a year ago to show that how ridiculous the format is and how they show many of the hole cards that they shouldnt

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

Having being very new to the forums, i was supposed to be working today but spent the last few hours reading the 60+ page thread where this all began with amazement.

Just wanted to say what everyone has said already which is great work by all involved!

What really makes it hit home is when you watch the actual hands in action on pokerXfactor. (the link is in this thread somewhere)

The myth of poker cheats is now not a myth!

Although i really hope its an isolated incident, it should be made public, people have a right to know.

-C

;>

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/...howtopic=44393

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great post.

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Seriously, everyone who hasn't should read this. Dan Druff has put all the the pieces together into a time line that really lays out the whole thing.

Re: Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job
 

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Holy crap! Thanks for those summary, I had stopped reading the other thread and didn't realize just how much more information came out. Has anyone contacted the Kahnawake Gaming Commission and requested a formal investigation of AP? AP operates under their regulations, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

See my thread where I will show up to thier office and start some [censored], any Montreal 2+2 ers are welcome to join me.