5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

Tournament: Pot Limit 5 Card Draw (400/800) (converter)

Hero (15880), Seat 6
BB (23715), Seat 1
UTG (31920), Seat 2
MP (11505), Seat 3
CO (15280), Seat 4
Button (7800), Seat 5

Hero posts 400. BB posts 800.

Hero is SB with [Jh Ad 6d Js 4c]

Round 1: (1200)

<font color="#666666">UTG folds. </font><font color="#666666">MP folds. </font><font color="#666666">CO folds. </font><font color="green">Button calls. </font><font color="red">Hero raises 2400 to 3200. </font><font color="#666666">BB folds. </font><font color="green">Button calls. </font>
Hero discards Ad 6d 4c. Button takes 4.

Hero has [Jh Js Jc 6h Qc]

Round 2: (7200)

<font color="green">Hero checks. </font><font color="red">Button bets 1600. </font><font color="red">Hero raises 10880 to 12480. </font><font color="green">Button calls 2920 (all-in). </font>

Pot: (16240)

Results: (in white)

<font color="white">Total pot 16720 | Rake 0

Button had [As Ac Ah Kd Ts] and won (16720) with three of a kind, Aces.
Hero had [Jh Jc 6h Js Qc] and lost with three of a kind, Jacks.
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Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

I'm lost ... who's the fish here?

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm lost ... who's the fish here?

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Button takes 4.

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Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

what are the chances? especially since you can see one of the aces! [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

Well obviously, you're the fish. You should have kept the 6 - then you'd have made a boat.
Always keep a 6.

MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

Hero Raises with AA44x to $2 after 1 limper.

Villain in the BB (short stack) pushes (he has about $5.50)

Hero calls.

Villain STANDS PAT

Hero draws 1. Doesn't improve. Wins Pot. Villain's cards--- AJ584 no flush, no draw, no pair, no sense.

I have just witnessed the STAND PAT BLUFF when there's no money left to bet!!!!

On a related note- BRAG- I have now called exactly two players who stood pat after a post draw bet (once with 2 pair and once with a set) and won them both. In each case I had reads on both and thought they were full of it. I know we can only speculate but I wonder what percentage of STAND PATs are complete BS?

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

What's with the monster raise postdraw? Not so sure that was such a good play. He's only going to call that huge bet if he lucked into something huge. Just call it down.

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's with the monster raise postdraw? Not so sure that was such a good play. He's only going to call that huge bet if he lucked into something huge. Just call it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

how can you project rationale on a player who called off 1/3 of his stack pre-draw with Ace high?

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

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What's with the monster raise postdraw? Not so sure that was such a good play. He's only going to call that huge bet if he lucked into something huge. Just call it down.

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BTW- I was at a cash game this weekend with a maniac who was raising every hand he opened and calling every raise. He would call a raise and draw 4 on a regular basis.

Surprisingly he lasted at least 20 minutes at the table.



how can you project rationale on a player who called off 1/3 of his stack pre-draw with Ace high?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hero Raises with AA44x to $2 after 1 limper.

Villain in the BB (short stack) pushes (he has about $5.50)

Hero calls.

Villain STANDS PAT

Hero draws 1. Doesn't improve. Wins Pot. Villain's cards--- AJ584 no flush, no draw, no pair, no sense.

I have just witnessed the STAND PAT BLUFF when there's no money left to bet!!!!

On a related note- BRAG- I have now called exactly two players who stood pat after a post draw bet (once with 2 pair and once with a set) and won them both. In each case I had reads on both and thought they were full of it. I know we can only speculate but I wonder what percentage of STAND PATs are complete BS?

[/ QUOTE ]

Two scenarios I saw over the weekend from players in BB: One called a raise, the other checked a multiway limpfest. In both cases, BB sood pat and then checked it down and showed garbage. Had to assume misclicks were involved somehow in both cases.

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

button only had 3000 more to call, so it's not a big raise in reality.

Re: MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

...or the villain knows its hopeless and cant be bothered ticking off cards. in OPs post, villain tried a bluff (!) for his last $5.50, on a "oh, [censored] it" shot, got called and knew he's hopeless.
And i've checked a free BB before and not even drew. If i gotta run to the kitchen between hands or something, i'm not bothering with 1,2,3,4,5 mouseclicks.
LOL if my action makes them all freeze-up. Mr.Trips from short feels dumb when he checks behind.

Re: MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

the guy had an ace... if you're going to bluff and get called, you might as well draw to something.

Though I've often felt, what is the point. When I get free BB and I have a hand like 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].... I'm completely confused what the right play is or if it makes any difference since the odds of me beating just about any limped hand has got to be pretty insignificant.

Re: MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

Sometimes miracles happen when you draw 5 for free-you might as well give it a shot when your hand is hopeless. In the big Grand Series of Poker at PokerRoom last spring, I won a huge pot when I drew 5 to crapola for free from the BB and drew a flush.

Re: MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes miracles happen when you draw 5 for free-you might as well give it a shot when your hand is hopeless. In the big Grand Series of Poker at PokerRoom last spring, I won a huge pot when I drew 5 to crapola for free from the BB and drew a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've drawn a flush once, a full house twice and trips or two pairs and even a good-enough pair several times. Just throwing in your blind and giving up is a real donk move.

Keep an A or a K, toss everything else.

Re: MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
........... When I get free BB and I have a hand like 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].... I'm completely confused what the right play is or if it makes any difference

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So... I'm never sure... when you have junk like above... are you better off drawing 5?

Or if you have 3 to a flush or 3 to a straight... do you draw 2 and hope for 2 perfect cards? Or just draw 5? Or if I have 2 3 4 6 7 (suites irrelevent)... draw for the 4 outer inside straight has got to be better then drawing 5, right?

Re: MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

Do not draw two to a flush, do not draw two to a straight, do not draw to an inside straight.

Do draw one to a flush or OESD. Draw to a pair or better. Draw 4 to a single A or a single K. If none of those conditions are met, toss 'em all in and get five new cards.

Re: MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do not draw two to a flush, do not draw two to a straight, do not draw to an inside straight.

Do draw one to a flush or OESD. Draw to a pair or better. Draw 4 to a single A or a single K. If none of those conditions are met, toss 'em all in and get five new cards.

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Thanks.

Re: MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

That, by the way, is advice direct from Weisenberg, who is the only writer I've come across who's given any real helpful advice on 5CD.

Re: MY OWN 5CD Fish Experience (no use starting my own low content)
 

I'm a big baby because these are the worse players. The other ones are so Weak tight that you think " I gotta call with my aces, he couldn't have made trips 5 times in a row!" and he flips over a boat. This keeps happening to me, but it's partly might fault for making a crying call. It still makes me sad though.

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

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I'm lost ... who's the fish here?

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Button takes 4.

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Whoops! Thanks for that bit of pertinent info.

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

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What's with the monster raise postdraw? Not so sure that was such a good play. He's only going to call that huge bet if he lucked into something huge. Just call it down.

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I would like others' opinions of my post-draw re-raise. Check raising with high-trips against someone who drew 4... generally there is value in this correct?

Assuming that you'll get paid off by 2-pair hands, and maybe even AA and KK.

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's with the monster raise postdraw? Not so sure that was such a good play. He's only going to call that huge bet if he lucked into something huge. Just call it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like others' opinions of my post-draw re-raise. Check raising with high-trips against someone who drew 4... generally there is value in this correct?

Assuming that you'll get paid off by 2-pair hands, and maybe even AA and KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so sure how you can say there is value in check-raising into weakness. More than likely, he's going to check behind unless he's caught a monster, which he did. That's lose-lose for you.

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's with the monster raise postdraw? Not so sure that was such a good play. He's only going to call that huge bet if he lucked into something huge. Just call it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like others' opinions of my post-draw re-raise. Check raising with high-trips against someone who drew 4... generally there is value in this correct?

Assuming that you'll get paid off by 2-pair hands, and maybe even AA and KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Regardless of his play pre-drop, I do think you are in one of those situations where you're only called by hands that beat you. (typically).

For a hand that's likely good but vulnerable, I think you still want to exercise pot control.

In the cashgames I've been balancing between valuebetting decent hands (that I would fold to a reraise) and checkcalling either because I have showdown value or to induce bets against players who will bet if checked to but fold if you bet into them.

Though I recognize you are such a predominant favorite preflop, you still only get called on the reraise by monsters.

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's with the monster raise postdraw? Not so sure that was such a good play. He's only going to call that huge bet if he lucked into something huge. Just call it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like others' opinions of my post-draw re-raise. Check raising with high-trips against someone who drew 4... generally there is value in this correct?

Assuming that you'll get paid off by 2-pair hands, and maybe even AA and KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't do a lot of checkraising in draw. Generally, I think checkraising is best used in this game when you catch a fluke draw and make a huge hand that the villain will have a hard time putting on you when you know he started with a strong hand, rather than checkraising when you have already indicated before the swap that you have strength.

Also, the tards who automatically bet with any hand when checked to after the swap are great people to checkraise.

Re: 5CD - fish alert (LC)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the tards who automatically bet with any hand when checked to after the swap are great people to checkraise.

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that is precisely my thinking on this hand... someone who draws 4 for most of his chips can certainly be classfied as a tard, and I would guess he is most likely going to bet when checked to.