Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~games/pok...-machine/Live/
Starting at 12 PM (PDT) you can go to this page and see live updates of the heads up match between Phil Laak and the poker playing computer program "Polaris"

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

thank you for link, should be interesting.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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thank you for link, should be interesting.

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Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

this is ridiculous. Its like putting george bush in a chess match vs deep blue and declaring him the representative of mankind.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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this is ridiculous. Its like putting george bush in a chess match vs deep blue and declaring him the representative of mankind.

[/ QUOTE ]
Phil isn't that bad. Though I'd much prefer CTS, Durrr, krantz, and Jman.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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this is ridiculous. Its like putting george bush in a chess match vs deep blue and declaring him the representative of mankind.

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I am sure Laak will make easy work on the computer. In fact, his gf probably could too. You don't need a top pro for this.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

Sweet its a block down from where I work. I am gonna go check in around 1 oclock

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

I thought Phil Hellmuth would be all over this. Not only does is he the self proclaimed "best No-limit champ in the world) he also tried to put his image on anything and everything.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

cash game or HU SNG?

what's the format of play?

also this is gay

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

I think I have my money on the computar as well

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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I think I have my money on the computar as well

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My money's on Laak, and I don't think it will be particularly close.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

hrmmm
http://www.pokerlistings.com/unabomb...-polaris-16118
says you have to be registered to view the match.
I'll try and sneak in anwyays

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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cash game or HU SNG?

what's the format of play?

also this is gay

[/ QUOTE ]

10/20 limit holdem

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

err its limit :S of course the computer is going to win.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

i am guessing i am really being the contrarian here but i am very happy the match is limit holdem (more action, more decisions per hand, especially heads up) and i am rooting for the computer to win just to help put to rest the notion that this game is absurdly complex and that humans have a huge edge at the game (a computer has/or very soon will have a much bigger edge at estimating equity, ranges, and calculating/executing optimal bluffing frequencies).

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

Laak already beat the computer once before last year I think. He is also a much better poker player than many of you guys realize. Don't let the retarded act he puts on fool you.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

It is a duplicate match with Phil and his partner playing identical deals, from opposing sides vs. two copies of hte program.

Rules

* The game for the event will be two-player Limit Texas Hold'em.
* A team of two humans will play against a team of two computer programs (both being copies of the Polaris poker technology).
* Teammates will play the same series of hands, but from opposite sides (one North, the other South) to reduce the element of luck to a minimum.
* No communication between teammates is permitted during play.
* All players (bot and human) will connect to an independent poker server run by Poker Academy (www.poker-academy.com), which will administer the parallel games.
* Each series of cards will be generated randomly, based on a combination of independent seeds provided by the human team, representatives of the bot team, the match arbiter, and the match administrators (no single entity determines the cards to be dealt).
* There will be four duplicate sessions of 500 hands each, played over two days (two sessions per day).
* The human team will receive an additional $5,000 for each session that is won by more than +25 small bets (+0.05 sb/h).
* The human team will receive an additional $2,500 for each session that is won or lost by +25 small bets or less (a statistical tie).
* All hands played will be made publicly available after the completion of the event.

Duplicate matches

In poker, luck has an enormous impact on short-term results. Even playing many thousands of games can be inconclusive in deciding the best player. In typical contests with only a few hundred hands and rapidly increasing blinds and antes, the outcome is largely a coin-flip -- Lady Luck almost always decides the issue.

The Man versus Machine match is a scientific experiment, and has been designed to gain as much statistical evidence as possible, measuring the difference in skill while factoring out much of the luck element inherent in the game of poker. To this end, each 500-hand session will be played as a duplicate match.

This means that the same series of cards will be used in the two parallel matches, with the two humans having the opposite hands in each match. In other words, Ali will have the "North" seat against Polaris_A, whereas Phil will have the "South" seat against Polaris_B. No communication is allowed between the two humans, nor between the separate copies of the Polaris program.

At the end of each session, the combined bankroll of the human team will be compared to the combined bankroll of the bot team to determine the winner of the duplicate match. In the case of a small margin of victory (within 25 small bets of break-even), the match will be declared a statistical tie. Four separate duplicate sessions will be played over the two-day series, allowing both teams an opportunity to learn more about their opponent, and adjust their strategy accordingly.

Duplicate matches have been shown to greatly reduce the natural variance in poker due to luck. The format has been studied both theoretically and empirically in recent publications by the U of A Computer Poker Research Group.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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(a computer has/or very soon will have a much bigger edge at estimating equity, ranges, and calculating/executing optimal bluffing frequencies).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is handwaving. It should be easy for computers to speak perfect English too, there are only so many words (each of which can be defined by smaller words), and a small set of grammar rules, and computers are very powerful.

Do you have evidence?

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

LHE...oh this is really gay

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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LHE...oh this is really gay

[/ QUOTE ]gotta crawl before you walk

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

dave lopan,

easily one of the funniest accounts i've ever seen. really, REALLY well played.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

Forgive my ignorance, but who is Ali Eslami, anyway?

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

Laak is good NL player but since they play Limit I rather have Jen Harman to play than Laak. And other guy???? I never heard of him. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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Phil isn't that bad. Though I'd much prefer CTS, Durrr, krantz, and Jman.

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i agree, having top NLHE players play limit holdem is incredibly +ev.

SALAZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Phil isn't that bad. Though I'd much prefer CTS, Durrr, krantz, and Jman.

[/ QUOTE ]
i agree, having top NLHE players play limit holdem is incredibly +ev.

SALAZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

[/ QUOTE ]

You idiot, it was just revealed that it was LHE. Get a life.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

if by just now you mean last week, then yes.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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Forgive my ignorance, but who is Ali Eslami, anyway?

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Ali is Phil's chosen teammate. Apparently he plays $400/$800 to $1k/$2k, mostly at Commerce.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

2000 hands against one guy won't prove much...

But as Todd explained...
This is really more of a scientific research experiment...
Than an attempt to prove anything.

The WSOP FT winner was decided by about 300 hands.

These Alberts guys are the leading edge...
In certain specific poker algorithms.

That said...
I have probably read a dozen papers on AI and poker...
And, in general, many academics based conclusions on fairly small samples...
Because they are not committed or creative enough to generate very large samples.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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And, in general, many academics based conclusions on fairly small samples...
Because they are not committed or creative enough to generate very large samples.

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Yeah I don't get this. I don't get this at all. I just don't see why people run a few thousand hands and publish a paper based on that.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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2000 hands against one guy won't prove much...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
To this end, each 500-hand session will be played as a duplicate match.

This means that the same series of cards will be used in the two parallel matches, with the two humans having the opposite hands in each match. In other words, Ali will have the "North" seat against Polaris_A, whereas Phil will have the "South" seat against Polaris_B. No communication is allowed between the two humans, nor between the separate copies of the Polaris program.

...

Duplicate matches have been shown to greatly reduce the natural variance in poker due to luck. The format has been studied both theoretically and empirically in recent publications by the U of A Computer Poker Research Group.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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[ QUOTE ]
2000 hands against one guy won't prove much...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
To this end, each 500-hand session will be played as a duplicate match.

This means that the same series of cards will be used in the two parallel matches, with the two humans having the opposite hands in each match. In other words, Ali will have the "North" seat against Polaris_A, whereas Phil will have the "South" seat against Polaris_B. No communication is allowed between the two humans, nor between the separate copies of the Polaris program.

...

Duplicate matches have been shown to greatly reduce the natural variance in poker due to luck. The format has been studied both theoretically and empirically in recent publications by the U of A Computer Poker Research Group.

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Well I'll take their word for it unless/until I read their results, but it seems counterintuitive. An aggro player who overvalues his hands will get punished if he makes a lot of medium-strength hands and runs into the nuts. On the other side of it, both players will play the nuts the same. And there's a converse situation. And so on.

You would think that whether this flaw gets exposed would depend a lot on the 2000 hands.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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12:13pm Phil is now exciting the room and we are about to begin. Ali sits down and he's ready to start!. He gets dealt A6 of spades. Polaris folds to him before Ali gets to make an action.

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Nit

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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Phil isn't that bad. Though I'd much prefer CTS, Durrr, krantz, and Jman.

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i agree, having top NLHE players play limit holdem is incredibly +ev.

SALAZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

[/ QUOTE ]

You idiot, it was just revealed that it was LHE. Get a life.

[/ QUOTE ]

SALAZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

Ugh there is a stunning lack of updates. At least they say that the game logs will be online.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

LOL IS IT REALLY [censored] LIIMT???

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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LOL IS IT REALLY [censored] LIIMT???

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I'll go out on a limb and say a machine would get absolutely destroyed at deep-stacked No Limit. This is the simplest game possible.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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LOL IS IT REALLY [censored] LIIMT???

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I'll go out on a limb and say a machine would get absolutely destroyed at deep-stacked No Limit. This is the simplest game possible.

[/ QUOTE ] No limit with less than 100bb is a much simpler game imo. much less turn and river play.

furthermore, NL HU poker has been SOLVED for ~12 BB or less. i think limit has only be solved for trivial cases like 1 big bet HU. as far as i know at least.

the NL is much more complicated than limit argument has no foundation outside of very deep stack games. you can play a very nitty/set mining and big pairs type game and win at the mid limits, there is no similar formulaic method of beating low/mid limit poker.

compare ed miller's NL holdem section vs the limit section in getting started in holdem. with 40 BB or less you can practically play strictly from a chart and never make a non-trivial decision on the turn or river.

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

Well I snuck in. Aka just walked in. Its pretty cool. The human plays up in front of a bunch of seating. Hes got a desk on a stage and the Monitor is displayed on a huge projection screen. He's got a head set and he talks about what hes playing and why. When I was there only ALI was playing. So I assume Phil will play the second session at 6 tonight. I somehow refrained from shouting things out like " THREE BET THAT [censored] FLOP YOU NIT!!"

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

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furthermore, NL HU poker has been SOLVED for ~12 BB or less.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is this about?

Re: Live Updates of the Laak vs Computer Match HERE
 

The Duplicate matches should give the humans the edge, unless the computer is programmed remember and strategically use the hand histories.

I imagine the human players will easily remember when big draws hit/miss etc on certain boards..