USA can thank China....
 

For the dollar going down even more vs CND$ and Euro...overnight there was discussion about China possibly selling up to $500b of the estimated $1trillion in US holdings. CND$ spiked @ $1.10 vs US green back in overnight action if I where American I would be very very worried.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
For the dollar going down even more vs CND$ and Euro...overnight there was discussion about China possibly selling up to $500b of the estimated $1trillion in US holdings. CND$ spiked @ $1.10 vs US green back in overnight action if I where American I would be very very worried.

[/ QUOTE ]

I already had to switch from maple syrup to Karo. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: USA can thank China....
 

Meh. Even cheaper vacations for us non-Americans.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

Someone should tell China you're supposed to buy low and sell high.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

If China goes through with this proposed sell off....gg US economy for many many years. They will replace with Euro which will only strengthen other markets.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
If China goes through with this proposed sell off....gg US economy for many many years. They will replace with Euro which will only strengthen other markets.

[/ QUOTE ]

We could use a good, hard slap in the face and learn a lesson: Don't let anybody get a strangle-hold on us again. And all for a couple of bucks off on a TV.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If China goes through with this proposed sell off....gg US economy for many many years. They will replace with Euro which will only strengthen other markets.

[/ QUOTE ]

We could use a good, hard slap in the face and learn a lesson: Don't let anybody get a strangle-hold on us again. And all for a couple of bucks off on a TV.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is true...I bought the last US built Zenith model. I am Canadian and all though there are some positive effects of the $ being up here...on the world scale we need the US green back to be stronger.Oh and if you need a lumber mill you can buy em cheap here.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If China goes through with this proposed sell off....gg US economy for many many years. They will replace with Euro which will only strengthen other markets.

[/ QUOTE ]

We could use a good, hard slap in the face and learn a lesson: Don't let anybody get a strangle-hold on us again. And all for a couple of bucks off on a TV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time preference, ftw.

Also FWIW, OP doesn't link to anything and what he really says is "there was a discussion." So while this is probably an inevitable consequence eventually (unless maybe Ron Paul is elected), I'm not convinced anything substantial is actually going on right now. Link please?

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Link please?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...mp;refer=japan

There we go.

It's really amazing that we do what we do. Get into trillions of dollars of debt as if there are no long-term consequences. Then what, try to convince China to wait a little longer... a little longer?

The real solution is so simple too. It almost blows my mind.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

I run a hedge fund and do this for a living...I know this info for fact and are sharing this with you all. When I get this info it is norm in the overnight and therefore doesn't hit the wires till am hours. And you are right Law it is only discussion for now as a dump of $500b would rock all finacial markets and therefore has to be done through smaller sell offs so as not to disrupt worlds markets..the US markets are going to be hit very very hard by weeks end if this indeed goes through. And if G.W tries and devalue the dollar like the Swede's with the Kroner then by back to help stabalize then it will be years before any corrections.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

Good thing my savings are heavily allocated to foreign stock funds ... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

natedogg

Re: USA can thank China....
 

I wasn't suggesting you didn't know what you are talking about, I was just looking for the actual information, since your OP didn't really elaborate.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

This is kinda shocking to me, even though the United States fully deserves it. Accumulating such huge reserves in the first place was at least as much a political decision as an economic one, since buying Treasuries has such a pitiful return compared to other investments the Chinese could have made. Why now? Awfully hard for the Administration to deal with this alongside the Iraq War and the escalating tensions in Pakistan. And the Chinese sell-off would put downward pressure on the dollar, which would certainly encourage other oil-exporting countries with dollar pegs to float after they realize they are trading a sharply appreciating asset (oil) for a sharply depreciating one (dollars). With China needing World validation for the 2008 Olympics, I expect to see heavy political pressure applied in the next couple of weeks.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

One question I'm wondering about is how much is the recent run-up in oil prices due a decline in the dollar and how much is due to a real increase in the value of oil?

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
One question I'm wondering about is how much is the recent run-up in oil prices due a decline in the dollar and how much is due to a real increase in the value of oil?

[/ QUOTE ]

Alot of the headline increase has to do with the depreciation of the dollar, and also further expectations of inflationary (for oil) depreciation of the dollar. Apparently Europeans haven't registered any change at all in their crude oil prices. There are also valid concerns about oil supply constraints published by the IAEA about global demand expanding much faster than previously expected.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]

We could use a good, hard slap in the face and learn a lesson: Don't use stupid fiat money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: USA can thank China....
 

Nothing wrong with fiat money per se. The problem is with the monopoly of any sort of money. The term "fiat" is a distraction, since in AC-land you can bet there'd be entities guaranteeing money with any sort of physical assets.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with fiat money per se. The problem is with the monopoly of any sort of money. The term "fiat" is a distraction, since in AC-land you can bet there'd be entities guaranteeing money with any sort of physical assets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. There wouldn't be fiat money. People would laugh at you.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with fiat money per se.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing wrong with preemptive war "per se." Sometimes I can point to some immediate positive consequence. But any justification is ultimately shortsighted. Unless you're a bona fide magician, it's tough to benefit from money that has no inherent value in the long-run.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently Europeans haven't registered any change at all in their crude oil prices.

[/ QUOTE ]
At least in Scandinavia, we've had fuel prices topping $2 per liter (apx $8 per gallon) for years now. Fuel, because of the government's aggressive pro-climate policy, is heavily taxed.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with fiat money per se. The problem is with the monopoly of any sort of money. The term "fiat" is a distraction, since in AC-land you can bet there'd be entities guaranteeing money with . . . physical assets.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's guaranteed with physical assets it isn't fiat money.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently Europeans haven't registered any change at all in their crude oil prices.

[/ QUOTE ]
At least in Scandinavia, we've had fuel prices topping $2 per liter (apx $8 per gallon) for years now. Fuel, because of the government's aggressive pro-what ever we can get away with policy, is heavily taxed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently Europeans haven't registered any change at all in their crude oil prices.

[/ QUOTE ]
At least in Scandinavia, we've had fuel prices topping $2 per liter (apx $8 per gallon) for years now. Fuel, because of the government's aggressive pro-what ever we can get away with policy, is heavily taxed.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

You might find this article interesting:

Climate Is a Risky Issue for Democrats

Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

Does anyone believe this is related with upcoming war with Iran? China’s US$ reserves are maybe one of their best arguments against the USA. I’d say they would use that weapon as their last escape. Changing too much dollars wouldn’t be profitable for them either, but in case of war against Iran they might be forced to that. That would put the dollar under intense pressure and send U.S. interest rates skyrocketing, especially since the Russians hold another 330B$ in their reserves. After all those reserves in US$ aren't the best option for them anyway (compared with euro or other currencies) and probably many countries be forced to do the same.

Domino effect. Killing me softly scenario.

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL279.../287395919.jpg

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone believe this is related with upcoming war with Iran? China’s US$ reserves are maybe one of their best arguments against the USA. I’d say they would use that weapon as their last escape. Changing too much dollars wouldn’t be profitable for them either, but in case of war against Iran they might be forced to that. That would put the dollar under intense pressure and send U.S. interest rates skyrocketing, especially since the Russians hold another 330B$ in their reserves. After all those reserves in US$ aren't the best option for them anyway (compared with euro or other currencies) and probably many countries be forced to do the same.

Domino effect. Killing me softly scenario.

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL279.../287395919.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a much more depressing view of the situation.

economic upheavel is a prequisite for regime change in a republic.

rb

Re: USA can thank China....
 

Is anyone suprised?

I mean, really. We've been running the money changer scam on the world for four decades. Is it suprising that everyone has wised up and is beginning to not want anything to do with our money if they can help it? This is in addition to intimidation, exploitative relationships, and downright refusal to trade with people we don't like. This is why I have pinned my financial strategy on a ever declining dollar. It will probably be a sound strategy for another decade or two.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good thing my savings are heavily allocated to foreign stock funds ... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto. And don't forget those Energy Funds.

-Zeno

Re: USA can thank China....
 

This thread has basically convinced me that long the dollar is the way to go.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

I just got off a conference call and I can tell you that some very influential money traders are getting ready to drop the US green back for Euro and are trying to figure out how not to disrupt global markets with a large sell. If I where an investor with any USD holdings...I would be making a move soon. It will get realy bad before it just stays bad for years to come. And the consensus is if US does invade Iran that the USD will be valued like the Albanian lek...lol

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior.

[/ QUOTE ] Do you think global warming is a real issue? If so, what do you propose is done about it? If no, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

[/ QUOTE ]


Another advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior.

[/ QUOTE ] Do you think global warming is a real issue? If so, what do you propose is done about it? If no, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well take a look at GM's write down of $39b in the quarter oil @ almost $100/b and the US gov still wants to invade another mid east country....I am just in awe how americans voted this clown and his lemming gov to office I would be ashamed if I where American.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior.

[/ QUOTE ] Do you think global warming is a real issue? If so, what do you propose is done about it? If no, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't want to hijack this thread with another "global warming" debate. We've had many on this forum. Might want to check the archives.

Are you an advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior btw? Will this type of central planning be effective regarding global warming?

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

[/ QUOTE ]


Another advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior.

[/ QUOTE ] Do you think global warming is a real issue? If so, what do you propose is done about it? If no, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well take a look at GM's write down of $39b in the quarter oil @ almost $100/b and the US gov still wants to invade another mid east country....I am just in awe how americans voted this clown and his lemming gov to office I would be ashamed if I where American.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is GM's non cash charge relevant here?

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior.

[/ QUOTE ] Do you think global warming is a real issue? If so, what do you propose is done about it? If no, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't want to hijack this thread with another "global warming" debate. We've had many on this forum. Might want to check the archives.

Are you an advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior btw? Will this type of central planning be effective regarding global warming?

[/ QUOTE ] I'm generally very much against central planning. I would go as far as calling myself an anarchist. But I have serious concerns about environmental issues, even more so in case of anarchy. So no, I'm not generally an advocate of increased central planning to influence economic behaviour, but yes, I think central planning might be necessary/effective in global environmental issues.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

[/ QUOTE ]


Another advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior.

[/ QUOTE ] Do you think global warming is a real issue? If so, what do you propose is done about it? If no, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well take a look at GM's write down of $39b in the quarter oil @ almost $100/b and the US gov still wants to invade another mid east country....I am just in awe how americans voted this clown and his lemming gov to office I would be ashamed if I where American.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is GM's non cash charge relevant here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't connect the dots when the largest US business are having major troubles with there finances and whats going on around them. When you have an employer of around 800k men and woman...they are directly responsible to parts companies....steel companies and the trickle down effect is huge. Throw in a downgrade on there borrowing ability and they are a [censored] hair away from doom.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

[/ QUOTE ]


Another advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior.

[/ QUOTE ] Do you think global warming is a real issue? If so, what do you propose is done about it? If no, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well take a look at GM's write down of $39b in the quarter oil @ almost $100/b and the US gov still wants to invade another mid east country....I am just in awe how americans voted this clown and his lemming gov to office I would be ashamed if I where American.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is GM's non cash charge relevant here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't connect the dots when the largest US business are having major troubles with there finances and whats going on around them. When you have an employer of around 800k men and woman...they are directly responsible to parts companies....steel companies and the trickle down effect is huge. Throw in a downgrade on there borrowing ability and they are a [censored] hair away from doom.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's ridiculous reasoning.

General Motors Loses $39 Billion

It's a paper loss totally, fessing up on some accounting rules. An earnings statement isn't a cash flow statement btw. GMs problems stem from liabilities to former UAW workers for retirement benefits more or less. This was addressed in the last contract negotiated with the uniion recently.


GM attributed the third-quarter loss to a $38.6 billion noncash charge largely related to establishing a valuation allowance against accumulated deferred tax credits in the U.S., Canada and Germany, as well as mortgage losses at GM's former financial arm, GMAC Financial Services.

But accounting rules require that companies expecting to keep losing money cannot keep carrying deferred tax credits indefinitely and must write down their value.

GM Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner said he knew the charge would be difficult to comprehend for some.

"I think you'd have to have a Ph.D. in accounting to understand it," Wagoner said during an interview on "The Paul W. Smith Show" on WJR-AM.

"It doesn't have any impact at all," he said. "I would encourage people not to overreact in a negative way to it."

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior.

[/ QUOTE ] Do you think global warming is a real issue? If so, what do you propose is done about it? If no, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't want to hijack this thread with another "global warming" debate. We've had many on this forum. Might want to check the archives.

Are you an advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior btw? Will this type of central planning be effective regarding global warming?

[/ QUOTE ] I'm generally very much against central planning. I would go as far as calling myself an anarchist. But I have serious concerns about environmental issues, even more so in case of anarchy. So no, I'm not generally an advocate of increased central planning to influence economic behaviour, but yes, I think central planning might be necessary/effective in global environmental issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you believe this? Put another way, what's the best example of central planning producing desired economic results? We've discussed how government might effect economic behaviour related to fossil fuel usage in the past btw.

Re: USA can thank China....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like the US politicians want to do the same thing more or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, why not. Maybe it will force a few Americans to not get that 6 liter engine pick-up truck for the purpose of buying groceries.

[/ QUOTE ]


Another advocate of increased central planning by the government to influence economic behavior.

[/ QUOTE ] Do you think global warming is a real issue? If so, what do you propose is done about it? If no, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well take a look at GM's write down of $39b in the quarter oil @ almost $100/b and the US gov still wants to invade another mid east country....I am just in awe how americans voted this clown and his lemming gov to office I would be ashamed if I where American.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is GM's non cash charge relevant here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't connect the dots when the largest US business are having major troubles with there finances and whats going on around them. When you have an employer of around 800k men and woman...they are directly responsible to parts companies....steel companies and the trickle down effect is huge. Throw in a downgrade on there borrowing ability and they are a [censored] hair away from doom.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's ridiculous reasoning.

General Motors Loses $39 Billion

It's a paper loss totally, fessing up on some accounting rules. An earnings statement isn't a cash flow statement btw. GMs problems stem from liabilities to former UAW workers for retirement benefits more or less. This was addressed in the last contract negotiated with the uniion recently.


GM attributed the third-quarter loss to a $38.6 billion noncash charge largely related to establishing a valuation allowance against accumulated deferred tax credits in the U.S., Canada and Germany, as well as mortgage losses at GM's former financial arm, GMAC Financial Services.

But accounting rules require that companies expecting to keep losing money cannot keep carrying deferred tax credits indefinitely and must write down their value.

GM Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner said he knew the charge would be difficult to comprehend for some.

"I think you'd have to have a Ph.D. in accounting to understand it," Wagoner said during an interview on "The Paul W. Smith Show" on WJR-AM.

"It doesn't have any impact at all," he said. "I would encourage people not to overreact in a negative way to it."


[/ QUOTE ]

lol..ok...you keep believing...and hey why not vote based on "Securing the Homeland" in 2008 as well....cause business leaders and politicians never lie.