Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

I have noticed there is almost always this automatic fairly large cbet. In MTTs, SNG, and particularly in live cash games, this is much less the case.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

Consider stack sizes and the quality of play between online ring and the others you mentioned.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

Because they play a ton of tables and are barely thinking about anything.

I think I'm around 66% for bet after preflop raise fwiw...

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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I think I'm around 66% for bet after preflop raise fwiw...

[/ QUOTE ]I'm around the same as well. Lots of c-bets are just spewage city.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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I have noticed there is almost always this automatic fairly large cbet. In MTTs, SNG, and particularly in live cash games, this is much less the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I've improved my game a lot by just stopping auto-cb'ing every flop. I still cb quite a bit, but I consider stacks, number of callers, villain's tendencies, and the texture of the flop. But I've also started disguising my flop checks, especially oop, with checking some made hands, as well.

Anyway, auto-cb'ing without factoring in all the things I listed gets to be pretty spewy if anybody behind you notices and floats or raises light to steal.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

I need to work on less cbetting.

Nevertheless, whenever I post a hand where I haven't cbet a bad hand on a low paired flop against a frequent floater/cbetraisor I get 3 people asking me "why no cbet?" lol [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

I cbet 73%. I've also been trying to do it less, especially oop against tards.

I consider cbet % to be just as important a stat to have on an opponent as AF and ATS. If it's not in your HUD display, start putting it there.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

I cbet closer to 80% but I'm 12 tabling so I can't pay as much attention to table dynamics. It's something I'm working on though.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

I think this is very dependant on your preflop play and your image in general.

If you're 30/15 then you're often going to have nothing on the flop and other players will realise you raise a lot and if they adjust then cbetting too much, particularly OOP, can put you in difficult situations.

OTOH, if you're 10/5 you're much more likely to have a hand on the flop and/or position so cbetting is much more likely to be a good play.

Throw in other factors like how you play on later streets and I think attempting to generalise here without considering other factors could be very dangerous.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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I think this is very dependant on your preflop play and your image in general.

If you're 30/15 then you're often going to have nothing on the flop and other players will realise you raise a lot and if they adjust then cbetting too much, particularly OOP, can put you in difficult situations.

OTOH, if you're 10/5 you're much more likely to have a hand on the flop and/or position so cbetting is much more likely to be a good play.

Throw in other factors like how you play on later streets and I think attempting to generalise here without considering other factors could be very dangerous.

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I am 30/15 and my cbet % is 51%. Of course, I sometimes check when I hit, and don't necessarily give up on the hand when I don't cbet.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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I am 30/15 and my cbet % is 51%. Of course, I sometimes check when I hit, and don't necessarily give up on the hand when I don't cbet.


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Yes, yes, of course, I'm vastly oversimplifying too in order to make a point. I'm just saying that the issue of how often a player should or shouldn't cbet is a very complex one that shouldn't be looked at in a vacuum. Hero's style, competency and image are really, really important here.

I think as a general statement we can say that cbetting should be inversely proportional to preflop aggression and loosenes however even within that framework there's a lot of "wiggle room" given the varieties available between preflop and postflop play.

Since most of us play some variant of a TAG game (I realise you don't) a high cbet% is usually correct, however, it's a really good idea to show some flexibility here particularly against good players who will try to exploit you.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

If you're not cont. betting every flop, you need to re-read supersystem.

POWER POKER!

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

I cbet 68%, raise 9%, c/r 1%

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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If you're not cont. betting every flop, you need to re-read supersystem.

POWER POKER!

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you need to read it... he doesn't advocate c-betting everytime [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

[ QUOTE ]


If you're 30/15 then you're often going to have nothing on the flop and other players will realise you raise a lot and if they adjust then cbetting too much, particularly OOP, can put you in difficult situations.

OTOH, if you're 10/5 you're much more likely to have a hand on the flop and/or position so cbetting is much more likely to be a good play.


[/ QUOTE ]

Spot on.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

I've found in the 10NL 6-max games that always c-betting doesn't work real well, even with a "TAG" image. I don't think people are smart enough to be thinking about how your hand so be really good and they have bottom pair and no kicker to they'll call you all day long. This is great when you actually hit the flop or have a large pp, but it stinks when you miss. Therefore, at this level at least I've started to not c-bet quite as often as I used to.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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If you're not cont. betting every flop, you need to re-read supersystem.

POWER POKER!

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. You are so gonna regret sharing that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

Has anyone read Paradise Lost or the Odyssey lately?...

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

Because most everyone at NL200 and below are huge nits and just c/f flops they miss.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

because people suck at poker?

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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Because most everyone at NL200 and below are huge nits and just c/f flops they miss.

[/ QUOTE ]I find a lot of NL200/NL400 Party regulars have fold to cbet at something like 54% so if your cbet is 2/3 of pot it's not even profitable per se [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
If you're not cont. betting every flop, you need to re-read supersystem.

POWER POKER!

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you need to read it... he doesn't advocate c-betting everytime [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

he advocates picking up as many of the small pots that where nobody has anything good as possible, so maybe not all flops, but a lot of them

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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Has anyone read Paradise Lost or the Odyssey lately?...

[/ QUOTE ]

ban

reading is stewpid
kthxbye

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

Then perhaps double barreling is in order.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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Because most everyone at NL200 and below are huge nits and just c/f flops they miss.

[/ QUOTE ]I find a lot of NL200/NL400 Party regulars have fold to cbet at something like 54% so if your cbet is 2/3 of pot it's not even profitable per se [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmn it'd be pretty close to neutral but still +EV if you don't ever win when called/raised on the flop, but you do go onto win some of the time

a potsized bet needs to work 50% to break even

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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If you're not cont. betting every flop, you need to re-read supersystem.

POWER POKER!

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you need to read it... he doesn't advocate c-betting everytime [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

he advocates picking up as many of the small pots that where nobody has anything good as possible, so maybe not all flops, but a lot of them

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Yes, so as I said I think he should reread it based on his post.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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Because most everyone at NL200 and below are huge nits and just c/f flops they miss.

[/ QUOTE ]I find a lot of NL200/NL400 Party regulars have fold to cbet at something like 54% so if your cbet is 2/3 of pot it's not even profitable per se [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

How many hands do you have to have on someone in order to be able to rely on the "Fold to Cbet %" stat in PT? I've noticed, for example, that I may have 1500 hands on someone but only 20-30 instances in which he could have folded to a cbet. That doesn't seem very reliable from a statistics viewpoint.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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Because most everyone at NL200 and below are huge nits and just c/f flops they miss.

[/ QUOTE ]I find a lot of NL200/NL400 Party regulars have fold to cbet at something like 54% so if your cbet is 2/3 of pot it's not even profitable per se [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmn it'd be pretty close to neutral but still +EV if you don't ever win when called/raised on the flop, but you do go onto win some of the time

a potsized bet needs to work 50% to break even

[/ QUOTE ]OK, thanks for the correction, you're right.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

i think my c-bet% is like 90% for full ring
those who have played against me can be more specific

stars is full of a lot of weak-tight play

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

i check quite a few flops

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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i check quite a few flops

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Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

I used to c-bet every flop no matter what but lately I have been questioning this and learning about how flop textures, image and player tendencies can have a + or - ev.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

theres nothing wrong with checking flops as long as you balance

theres nothing wrong with cbetting 100% as long as you double barrel a lot.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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theres nothing wrong with checking flops as long as you balance

theres nothing wrong with cbetting 100% as long as you double barrel a lot.

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100% anything is generally bad.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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theres nothing wrong with checking flops as long as you balance

theres nothing wrong with cbetting 100% as long as you double barrel a lot.

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100% anything is generally bad.

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I'm currently at 100% having the nuts over 200k hands, which is terrible for metagame, so agree completely

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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theres nothing wrong with checking flops as long as you balance

theres nothing wrong with cbetting 100% as long as you double barrel a lot.

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I cbet probably like 95% of the time when I'm not donked into. Does this stat take into account times you're donked into or is it just cbets/preflop raises? However, I definitely double and triple barrel more than basically any other reg I've seen.

Re: Why does everyone in online FR always cbet?
 

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theres nothing wrong with checking flops as long as you balance

theres nothing wrong with cbetting 100% as long as you double barrel a lot.

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100% anything is generally bad.

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works for the johnstown bots