Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

I work at the Stratosphere as an Analyst. One of my projects is to look at the poker room, put together analysis and make recommendations to improve the poker room.

Here is where they are now:

The poker room is in a bad location. It is located right behind a night club and is hidden. There's been talks of relocating the room, but at this point, I am looking at making improvements based on what they have now. They run at 35-40% occupancy and they have 8 tables. Obviously we would like this to go up. Around 1/3 of their bottom line is from tournaments.

They run 4 tournaments a day and pretty much the only cash game they spread is 1/2NL.

My first thought is looking at the tournament structure. Without sharing my thoughts, I would like to get outsider's perspectives. Below are the details of the tournament.

Please give your feedback. Is the tournament competitive? Would you play in it? What is good/bad about the tournament and structure.

Tourney Details:

9am, 1pm, 8pm, 12am
Starting Stack = 4K chips
20 minute blinds
Avg Participants - 25-60...closer on the 40 range.

$60 buy in. No rebuys and no add-ons. No guarantees.
New entries and re-entries for 1st hour.


Blinds

Level 1 - 25-50
Level 2 - 50-100
Level 3 - 100-200
Level 4 - 100-200-25 ante
Level 5 - 200-400-50 ante
Level 6 - 300-600-75 ante
Level 7 - 500-1000 - 100 ante
Level 8 - 1000-2000 - 200 ante
Level 9 - 2000-4000 - 500 ante
Level 10 - 4000-8000 - 1000 ante
Level 11 - 6000-12000 - 2000 ante
Level 12 - 10000-20000 - 5000 ante

17% of total prize goes to the house.

I appreciate any feedback. Thank you.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

will you pay me? :X

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

Umm..what are the buy ins? Rebuys? Guarantees?

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

i ll edit it.

sorry

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

i have my ideas. but want outsider's perspectives. i ve talked to them about what i think they should do. just wanna see if it is consistent at all with the poker community.

i appreciate any feedback.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

you gotta have limit games

try to get a regular small plo game going, that would bring some attention to your room

gotta have comps too

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

The tourney structure sucks and when did the poker room get moved away from the entrance adjacent to the sports book and to an area near a club?

As for making it more successful? I hate to say it, but it's the Strat, to visitors, the casino is more along the lines of Circus Circus, Rivera, et al.. It's not going to be a high end poker destination. Their clientelle has been and always will be the low rolling tourists that are staying in the hotel.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

As far as the tourney, here are my thoughts:

The 17% rake hurts. The structure could use a 75/150 level. Also the leap from 500/1000 to 1000/2000 is BRUTAL.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

Chao, I played in your room in 05/06 when out on the casino floor and in 12/06 when behind the sportsbook (very poor location; no walk-in traffic). Perhaps you have moved it again? I did not play your tournaments b/c of the high juice and poor blind structure. Your starting stack size is, however, superior to other low buyin tournaments. Dealers were terrible in 05/06 but markedly improved in 12/06. Meal comps provided if the floor was pressured for them. Much nicer place in which to play than the Sahara, which I perceive as your closest 'low-limit tourist walk-in' competition. No specific suggestions I guess, but I look forward to playing again in 07/07.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your starting stack size is, however, superior to other low buyin tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

I beg to differ, Planet Hollywood tournaments have 4k starting chips and much slower blind structure without antes, has larger fields on average, and better location for Joe Tourist.

[ QUOTE ]
Much nicer place in which to play than the Sahara, which I perceive as your closest 'low-limit tourist walk-in' competition.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will agree with you on this one, but I do find it funny that people always compare the Strat to other small rooms like that (as I did in the above post). You never hear someone comparing the Strat to GVR, or MGM, or even Mirage.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

it is still in the same crappy location. there s been talks about moving it. however, when the poker room and sports book bring in 1-3% of gaming revenue, it is extremely hard to justify.

i think it s safe to say that the strat is not trying to be a major player in the poker field. there s just way too many poker rooms on the strip.

we dont even really have much of a locals market if any. we are at 30-40% capacity max.

more analysis will need to be done but on observations it seems that the tournies drive the cash games. they run 9am/1pm/8pm/12am. there s usually only 1 cash table going from 1-8pm. The only times you'll see people in the room is during a tourney. After 2 hours of the completion of the tourney, it is back to 1 table of 1/2NL.

the tourney attracts the tourists who dont wanna shell out over $100. they re all inexperienced. right now i m trying to find ways to bring the occupancy %'s up.

my first inclination is looking at tournies, then finding various games to spread. moving the poker room out of its current location will have a major impact on the bottom line. we ve lost 40-50% profits from July 06 when the poker room moved.

but w/o the idea of moving, i am looking for ways to work with what they have at the current moment.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

You might be interested in this thread. We actually had a Venetian floor come here once asking the same questions, but I couldn't find that thread. Also, could someone dig up Mason's essay on how to run a poker room?

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
As far as the tourney, here are my thoughts:

The 17% rake hurts. The structure could use a 75/150 level. Also the leap from 500/1000 to 1000/2000 is BRUTAL.

[/ QUOTE ]

that 17% rake is typucal of low limit tournies in town.

One day I was dealing in one of these low buy-in tournies where the rake happened to be 17%. One of the tourist in the game was explaining to another player how much poker back in Florida sucked and he refused to play while back home because the rake in the tournaments was 17%.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

can you provide any specific incentives for tournament players to stay for the cash games? slightly reduced buyin if you log some time before the tourney? modest food comp for a snack if you stay to play after busting out or cashing?

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

Wait, wait, wait a minute... are you saying the Stratosphere has a poker room?

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
You might be interested in this thread. We actually had a Venetian floor come here once asking the same questions, but I couldn't find that thread. Also, could someone dig up Mason's essay on how to run a poker room?

[/ QUOTE ]

Best thing to do is buy his books, or contact him directly for a consultation. Poker Essays 1, 2, & 3.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

17%

[censored] that.

i'd never play it.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

I had a floor guy be such a dick to me on my only time at the Stratosphere that the dealer (Desensio, or something) actually complained to management for me. They offered a comped meal, but I was furious and told them I would never come back.

So my suggestion: have that floor guy exterminated, fix how the players are treated and worry about tourney structure later.

Just my two cents, but I hold a grudge [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You might be interested in this thread. We actually had a Venetian floor come here once asking the same questions, but I couldn't find that thread. Also, could someone dig up Mason's essay on how to run a poker room?

[/ QUOTE ]

Best thing to do is buy his books, or contact him directly for a consultation. Poker Essays 1, 2, & 3.

[/ QUOTE ]
It might be the best, but it wouldn't be the easiest. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

How to run a poker room by Mason Malmuth.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

I find it offensive that you would come here asking for advice. I worked at the Stratosphere until they closed the poker room on March 1, 2001. They cheated me out of earned vacation time and refused to return my calls. When they reopened the room they chose to go with a known thief as the manager and now they want advice. If they really want advice on how to improve their poker room I can work out a consulting fee with them.

Randy Refeld

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
I find it offensive that you would come here asking for advice. I worked at the Stratosphere until they closed the poker room on March 1, 2001. They cheated me out of earned vacation time and refused to return my calls. When they reopened the room they chose to go with a known thief as the manager and now they want advice. If they really want advice on how to improve their poker room I can work out a consulting fee with them.

Randy Refeld

[/ QUOTE ]

I can vouch for Randy (sorry, I forgot you used to work there), he is very capable of providing the consulting work you need. As I alluded to in the PM I think your taking the wrong approach with your "focus on tournament profits" philosophy due to empirical results. Your data is skewed because the room is improperly run, place a competent person like Randy in charge of rethinking management, marketing and policy of the room from top to bottom and you will see results that exceed your data projections.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

add a 400-800 level and skip the 500-1000 and go directly to a 6-12

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

TT, i am not just looking at how the tourney is run. there's ALOT of work that needs to be done.

they dont have any tracking system so they dont even know who their players are. majority of people who play here are guests and without any tracking, there s no databse mktg which means no mass mail outs or anything.

they dont have a sophisticated comp system. there game spread is weak.

tourney-wise, most of their players are again tourists who stay at the casino b/c of the structure. tourist who hop casinos looking for tournies often opt for larger fields with bigger payouts and probably most importantly, good structure.

so that s why i posted the structure to get some feedback.

ALOT needs to be done. i saw this post as an opportunity to get feedback...you guys have provided alot of good feedback for the V.

i appreciate all the feedback and apologize to randy if he feels offended.

i am not a poker genius...as an analyst i look at different parts of the gaming business and now i m taking a look at the poker room and sports book.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
17%

[censored] that.

i'd never play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then don't. Most daily tournament under $100 buy-in in Las Vegas have 20% or even more juice.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

i really appreciate any help. the thing is that i d like to see the poker room do more business than bring in 17% of a $60 buy in. They have 6-7 tables and average 40 players so you can easily do the math. Take out labor expenses, drinks, and they're not making anything.

When a tourney is not running, you'll see 1 table of 1/2NL and maybe a 2/4LHE game running.

i know it may seem odd that i am posting for feedback on this site. who knows..i could get in trouble with my job but i think this is prob 1 of hte best things i can do -- get advice from some real poker players.

if they want to continue contributing 1-2% of total gaming revenue for the casino and only attract tourists staying at the casinos to play in their tournies and play cash games, then i wouldnt need to do anything

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

When a tourney is not running, you'll see 1 table of 1/2NL and maybe a 2/4 lhe game running.

do these players wear fanny pack and put sunglasses on? o dear god tell me they do

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
i am not a poker genius...as an analyst i look at different parts of the gaming business and now i m taking a look at the poker room and sports book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many years ago before I became who I am today I used to be in the music business. Back then I sued to say the best producer is the guy who delegates authority the best. In other words he brings in the best musicians he can, and trusts their opinions in areas he is weakest. Now that I am a big wig business executive (cough cough) I still believe the best managers are those who learn to delegate authority well.

It sounds like there is an authority delegation problem at your company, your not delegating the topics you dont understand to an expert. You see we kind of don't like suits without poker backgrounds around here, unless they are willing to delegate and learn from those around them who are more qualified. For example in a recent thread I railed on the management from the Venetian - I suggested a poker room director with a sales and marketing/management background with an assistant manager who is highly experienced with poker rules and operations. Sounds like you need the poker rules and operations/marketing equivalent to your bean counting... and nobody here at 2+2 should give you too much support unless that occurs.

tough love... sorry.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

I play the Strat quite often when I have low rolling friends with me.

First and foremost, turn the 3 tables in the middle of the room, 180 degrees, the dealers can not see the tournament clock, and this leads to much confusion. Alternatively, run the clock on a plasma that all dealers can see.
The blind structure could do with some tweaking.
Also I have seen the tourney capped at 40, with everybody else as an alternate. You often seem to have 2 floors and a cashier working, I know sometimes one of the floors jumps in as relief in a ring game, perhaps you could use one of the dead tables to make the tourney start with 50 entrants, then as people bust out, try to get another ring game going !! Maybe with some sort of reduced rake promotion for the first hour.

For your ring games, you need to start displaying the high hand 'jackpots' on the plasmas, as you used to in the old room. However as you have no rail, so to speak of, it will not attract many players.

I have heard rumours that the poker room would be moved into the high limit slots area, this would be a great move, and IMO the easiest way for the room to get busier. As it stands, you cant build your tourney into a competitor for the Sahara and the like, as there numbers will always run bigger than your due to your physical constraints !!

Oh and finally, the loose canon that floors the day shift (Dec-Feb), needs addressing ASAP, she has p1ssed off so many of your customers, but I am sure you knew this.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

If you were to put the poker room in the same place as the topless pool and raised the price of admission so the poker room was getting a share I guarentee you would never have an open seat.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

It took 23 posts by other than the OP for someone just to give the guy a little advice. NEVADAKAZ, thank you for helping the guy out without playing GOD or trying to stand on a pedistal like so many people ( cough cough ) try to do on here.

Jesus, he just wanted a few ideas. He wasnt asking for someone to come in and manage the room. I thought this was a forum to ask questions and hopefully receive good advice.

Why is everything in the forum centered around buying Mason's books or hiring TT to consult? I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth....

Thank you once again NEVADAKAZ for helping the guy out.

If you guys dont hear from me it is because TT suspended me from this forum. He does that when people dont agree with what he says...

Tommy

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus, he just wanted a few ideas. He wasnt asking for someone to come in and manage the room. I thought this was a forum to ask questions and hopefully receive good advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is, but this is also a casino that was embraced by the online community and they decided to eliminate poker. Find posts I made between June 99 and March 01 and you will see that the Stratosphere was very popular in the online community (hosting special events for RGPers etc). In Feb 2001 Nolan Dalla summed up what a lot of people were thinking about them (you will find what he said at the time if you search RGP for my name in the title at that time).

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus, he just wanted a few ideas. He wasnt asking for someone to come in and manage the room. I thought this was a forum to ask questions and hopefully receive good advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

he got good advice - historically poker rooms which change operations due to empirical results datamined by a financial consultant do not perform well. If he wants good results he needs to partner with a poker operations specialist to help fix the room. That specialist could be anyone if they are competent in operations and can read a spreadsheet since thats how the OP will be viewing data, we recommended RR or Mason since they are two of our best resources here at 2+2. Any other advice would be served improperly, low limit locals can smell out a property which is not really trying to cater to their needs in their own eyes a mile away.

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everything in the forum centered around buying Mason's books or hiring TT to consult? I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth....

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't consult, I don't work in the casino business. But I am more qualified to discuss operations in this forum than many existing consultants - thats a sorry state of affairs in the casino industry that this is true, the brain trust/labor pool is significantly lacking in quality unfortuantly. Everything is centered around buying Mason's books because he wrote exactly what the OP needs already, and if you havent noticed this forum was created to support 2+2 books.

[ QUOTE ]
If you guys dont hear from me it is because TT suspended me from this forum. He does that when people dont agree with what he says...

[/ QUOTE ]

All - Tommy is a shill for a poker room in Vegas which he works with, this has been confirmed. He was suspended for a short term for spamming a few months back. He obviously has a chip on his shoulder. Of course nobody gets banned for acting rude or being misinformed (although we will ask you to stop being overtly rude and consider a suspension if it becomes abusive towards another user at 2+2), but you can very easily be banned if you spam the forums. Tommy was previously warned, note that he was only suspended rather than a full on banning.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

the stratosphere sucks and the location of the casino itself is even worse than the poker room. i feel like you guys have no shot in competing with the other rooms....unless you were to make me the local card room pro. ill be willing to play there every day and attract the sort of customer base that you want and onyl charge my hourly online win rate+ benefits. i benefit from doing hookers. get back at me. thnx

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

Chao:

Final tables held at the top of the Stratosphere tower.

Longer tourneys with recommended structures.

Hire pros/celebrities to play, put bounties on them.

Top-shelf cocktails and first-class service.

Amazing comps. Friendly staff.

Hope these help.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

For low-stakes tournies, I think the structures used by the Borgata and by the Showboat for their daily tournaments in Atlantic City are good ones. Here is a link to where you can find them:

http://acpokerguide.com/dailytournaments.htm

The structures are different... the Borgata allows one add-on and has antes, while the Showboat never uses antes. In any event, I think that both structures are among the fairest anywhere for low-stakes tournies with 20 minute levels. You get a fair amount of play in both tournaments, but neither of them lasts forever.

You might consider adopting one of these formats for your casino.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of course nobody gets banned for acting rude or being misinformed

[/ QUOTE ]

In OOT I got an * for posting something I had no idea that had been already posted in a another forum I rarely if ever read. When I asked why I got the * I was told because of this and that so I laughed at the hilarity of it. To get something like that for what I did compared to all the other complete BS that goes on here was funny. So I expressed that it was a stupid. I got another * and a ban for a whole 24 hours. So your statement above about being misinformed is wrong!!

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course nobody gets banned for acting rude or being misinformed

[/ QUOTE ]

In OOT I got an * for posting something I had no idea that had been already posted in a another forum I rarely if ever read. When I asked why I got the * I was told because of this and that so I laughed at the hilarity of it. To get something like that for what I did compared to all the other complete BS that goes on here was funny. So I expressed that it was a stupid. I got another * and a ban for a whole 24 hours. So your statement above about being misinformed is wrong!!

[/ QUOTE ]

OOT has special policies because its a forum where people tend to get too far out of line. The rest of the 2+2 forums dont share the same policies. Did you ever discuss this with the admins or the moderator who stared/suspended you to try to clear it up? Sounds like you were out of line for some other reason you are not conveying or they wouldn't have suspended you. The mods here often get accused of abusing their powers, but when we all sit back and look at the facts its rarely found to be true.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course nobody gets banned for acting rude or being misinformed

[/ QUOTE ]

In OOT I got an * for posting something I had no idea that had been already posted in a another forum I rarely if ever read. When I asked why I got the * I was told because of this and that so I laughed at the hilarity of it. To get something like that for what I did compared to all the other complete BS that goes on here was funny. So I expressed that it was a stupid. I got another * and a ban for a whole 24 hours. So your statement above about being misinformed is wrong!!

[/ QUOTE ]

OOT has special policies because its a forum where people tend to get too far out of line. The rest of the 2+2 forums dont share the same policies. Did you ever discuss this with the admins or the moderator who stared/suspended you to try to clear it up? Sounds like you were out of line for some other reason you are not conveying or they wouldn't have suspended you. The mods here often get accused of abusing their powers, but when we all sit back and look at the facts its rarely found to be true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I made a post that asked "why" because I didn't understand that I got it for making the post that I made. I did understand that it was for something I did wrong (again I didn't know that I had done anything wrong) and said "if I get another for asking why then go ahead" so they did.

I found it funny because I don't get involved in most of the stupidity that goes on in almost every forum here. Then to boot me for 24hrs. I cracked up.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

It is easier to get an * in OOT than to get a tick while walking through tall weeds. You get another * if you ask why you got the first one.

Sorry for the thread Hijack.

Re: Stratosphere Poker Room - Suggestions and Improvements
 

[ QUOTE ]
Final tables held at the top of the Stratosphere tower.

[/ QUOTE ]

Card down!



[ QUOTE ]
Longer tourneys with recommended structures.

Hire pros/celebrities to play, put bounties on them.

Top-shelf cocktails and first-class service.

Amazing comps. Friendly staff.

Hope these help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now these are the suggestions of a shrewd business man.

I can't wait to hear how he plans to pay for all of it.