AA vs predictable stone
 

$0.50/$1.00


Button ($20.65) 8.4/4.8/2.14 - 227 hands
UTG+1 ($38.25) (Hero)


Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>,

Button calls,

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ( 4.75BB )
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls,

I dont raise flop becouse I wanne exploid his tendency to overplay big pocets.
He looks at stone and his PFR (esspecialy 3 bet) is very narrow. I assume he has JJ+ (possibly TT+), AK+.
After he raised me at flop I assume he has JJ+ but more like QQ+.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ( 6.75BB )
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls,

Here I wanna exploid his overaggressive play big pocets and have plan to maximaze pot so I play donk with intend to 3bet.
My donk looks like weak AKo UI or weaker hand like middle pocet pair. Also he can think that I piced up FD at turn and will more liklu to raise me at turn.

Ok. Plan works.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( 14.75BB )
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls,

Here just c/c or bet/call?

Final Pot: 17.9BB

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

This a pretty weird hand. What does he have? AA, KK? His 2.24 AF with his tight VPIP looks like he will wait patiently for a hand and then won't let go, or overplays it when he gets one.

I would have 3bet the flop (or capped it if possible)...As played, I would call the turn raise and check/call the river. I dunno, is not three betting the turn here a bit weak, because MAYBE we are up against tens?

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

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My donk looks like weak AKo UI or weaker hand like middle pocet pair.

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The donk may look like an AKo or AKs, but it does NEVER look like a middle pocket pair because you capped preflop.

He's probably putting you on QQ+ or AK.

And then, given the turn action, I'm only putting him on either KK or TT, one of which you beat, the other you lose to...
If you don't think TT is in his 3-betting range, go ahead and raise again, else call as played...

Personally I'd have panicked after his turn cap, fearing tens, so I'd c/c the river, but if you're fearless, go ahead and punish his KK with a b/r or c/r... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

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He looks at stone and his PFR (esspecialy 3 bet) is very narrow.

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Maybe I don't know what stone means, because this makes no sense and I can't change it to any words to make it make sense.

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

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He looks at stone and his PFR (esspecialy 3 bet) is very narrow.

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Maybe I don't know what stone means, because this makes no sense and I can't change it to any words to make it make sense.

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Aaron, this is esoteric, jedi poker read. The common TAG is not meant to understand this. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

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This a pretty weird hand.

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The occasional triple-donk is a good way to throw off your opponent (especially if he has an idea about how you play), but it makes hand-reading hell.

This IS played in an unorthodox manner, but it doesn't really strike me as bad play.
Only the third donk here is questionable, given the turn cap...

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

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Maybe I don't know what stone means, because this makes no sense and I can't change it to any words to make it make sense.

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Perhaps he's talking about the "raising rock"??? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

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He looks at stone and his PFR (esspecialy 3 bet) is very narrow.

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Maybe I don't know what stone means, because this makes no sense and I can't change it to any words to make it make sense.

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Aaron I appreciate every time you response to our micro-limit posts but can you poit what is incorrect with my thinking process?

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

This thread is locked (OziBattler)

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

why would I lockit? r u stoned? lolz

FWIW this is almost exactly the case AA, KK or TT from this sort of player. For this to be TT he needs to have finally grown a pair preflop from his usual nitty standards.

JJ whilst I dont hate the way you played it it is true that you are out of tempo. The standard play on the turn once you dont 3 ball the flop is to CR. Unless you have a read that this guy overplays his premium hand because he sat there patiently folding then you dont know that he will give further action unless he flops good. His AF is 2+ but he plays so few hands that you might expect it to be higher if he really was prone to overplay KK in this sort of spot.

did you have any real read on this guy?...after 200+ stats you should at least have some notes if these arent datamined.

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

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He looks at stone and his PFR (esspecialy 3 bet) is very narrow.

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Maybe I don't know what stone means, because this makes no sense and I can't change it to any words to make it make sense.

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Aaron I appreciate every time you response to our micro-limit posts but can you poit what is incorrect with my thinking process?

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Well, part of it is that I'm still trying to figure out what your read is. "Predictable stone" I took to mean "predictable rock". You say he has a tendency to overplay pockets, which usually isn't what I think of when I think of a rock (rock to me means very tight and very passive, not just uber-tight preflop).

If you think he'll overplay a pocket pair, it's worth considering bet/3-bet/call, check-raise-call instead. If he has QQ/JJ, he may not give you the action you want if the turn brings an overcard. You also have to consider the AK free card raise (which he may or may not do depending on the read).

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

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why would I lockit? r u stoned? lolz

FWIW this is almost exactly the case AA, KK or TT from this sort of player. For this to be TT he needs to have finally grown a pair preflop from his usual nitty standards.

JJ whilst I dont hate the way you played it it is true that you are out of tempo. The standard play on the turn once you dont 3 ball the flop is to CR. Unless you have a read that this guy overplays his premium hand because he sat there patiently folding then you dont know that he will give further action unless he flops good. His AF is 2+ but he plays so few hands that you might expect it to be higher if he really was prone to overplay KK in this sort of spot.

did you have any real read on this guy?...after 200+ stats you should at least have some notes if these arent datamined.

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OziBattler thx for participate at this topic.

I know that I could 3bet this flop or CR turn but I thought that I can get some more value whan I will play some fancy with this guy.

I dont have read on him (datamined).

If we assume that he has AA, KK or TT at turn when he re-raise my donk so lets see combos:

AA - 1
KK - 6
TT - 3
QQ - 3 (6), but lets say he is a nit and will raise my donk only 50% times

So this math says that donk/raise is good.
And at this huge pot rock will call down very often with 2nd best becouse 1) he wait for this hand all day 2) pot is big 3) I have agro image

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

Yea, stone I mean rock , hehe [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
hmm, so its rather not rock if we assume rock is tight and passive becouse he has quite big AF 2.14 and its why I assume he will play his big hands aggressive.

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

I wouldn't donk this turn. Either 3bet the flop and lead the turn after s/he calls, or else c/r the turn after calling the raise.

As played, I tend to call down after the turn raise. This is signaling strength...

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

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If you think he'll overplay a pocket pair, it's worth considering bet/3-bet/call, check-raise-call instead. If he has QQ/JJ, he may not give you the action you want if the turn brings an overcard.

You also have to consider the AK free card raise (which he may or may not do depending on the read).

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After night I did some math. And yea river is definitly c/c btw.

I can think hero can play this hand 3 ways (I assume hero is ahead vs JJ, QQ, KK and villain wont overplay his hand).

1) This line is esspecialy possible if villan has JJ or QQ becouse he wont cap preflop.

Flop: b/3b
Turn: b
River: b

ALL = 3.5 BB

2) Villain with KK will probably cap preflop and will lead turn.

Flop: b/3b/c
Turn: c/r
River: b

ALL = 5 BB

3) "donk line" This line can get maximum value when villain has KK BUT also when he has JJ or QQ.

Flop: b/c
Turn: donk/3b
River: b

ALL = 5 BB

"If he has QQ/JJ, he may not give you the action you want if the turn brings an overcard."

Yea. There are left at deck 2x Ace and 4x King. So there is 12% chance that any ace or king hit turn and then villain will slow down and just call my donk at turn and call bet at river so then I

will get only ALL = 3 BB.

So its worth risk 0.5 BB that ace or king hit the turn to get 1.5 BB more becouse ace or king will hit only 12% times when villan has JJ or QQ.

"You also have to consider the AK free card raise (which he may or may not do depending on the read)".

Yes. I assume he wont do this unless he will show me something else.

Re: AA vs predictable stone
 

grunching

gotta c/c the river imo