Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

I am looking for some information about pub/bar style poker tournaments in Texas. I run a tournament in Alaska (Alaska has similar gaming laws as TX.) A lady from Texas visited my tournament and she told me she had a friend that "rented" poker chips to players in the bar for a small fee then the bar held a free poker tournament for prizes. I thought it was an interesting concept. Has anyone had experience playing in this type of tournament?

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

Sounds illegal. Free bar poker is legal, if you bring money into it like that, sounds dodgy. Unless the renting is that he rents the chips to the bar to use in running the league.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

Sure, in the Boston area there are several organizations that do this:
www.bigstackpoker.com
www.amateurpokerleague.com
www.riverchasers.com

Bar pays the organization to run a free poker event (no buyin). The organization brings a TD and chips and tables, and offers a small prize to the winner for the night. People are drawn into the bar/restaurant for the free poker/prizes. The people buy food and the bar/restaurant makes money.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

Boston, Texas?

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

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Sounds illegal. Free bar poker is legal, if you bring money into it like that, sounds dodgy. Unless the renting is that he rents the chips to the bar to use in running the league.

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It was the person who owned the chips renting them directly to the players. Kind of like when you play pool and you rent the balls or if you go bowling and you rent the shoes.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

That's... unorthodox and could possibly attract legal attention if the authorities want to care.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

Yeah... not a chance I would be any part of that scheme. No attorney general or county prosecutor is going to let that happen. I've seen articles in local papers sparked by these bar tournaments where the local law was asked why it was allowed and the answer was that it must be absolutely, totally, 100% free without absolutely, totally, no strings of any sort whatsoever. No requirement to buy drinks or food, no cover charge, NOTHING. ANY exchange of money from player to establishment as a condition to playing would make the games illegal.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

That's what I thought but like I said, someone told me about it and I thought I would see if this was a practice someone could verify was actually being used.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

bav: Not strictly true, there was a legal ruling that it's ok for the bars to give prizes to the winners. In Texas.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

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bav: Not strictly true, there was a legal ruling that it's ok for the bars to give prizes to the winners. In Texas.

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I said the exchange of money the other direction is a problem; players CANNOT give money to the establishment. The establishment is welcome to provide prizes, yes. They just can't charge a penny for it. If you have to "rent chips" to play, you're charging an entry fee and you're gonna be charged with a felony in most states, I think, when the law catches on.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

Yeah, I totally misread that last sentence. ISATG.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

I've played in 2 forms here in Austin, TX (not Boston, TX).

1. there's a couple of bars that have a poker table where a dealer will come in and rent the chips to the players. She swore it's "not illegal" and was doing the exact same thing with the fake blackjack tables in the bars before the poker craze. There's no nightly prize, but at the end of the month the "Top money winners" get entered into a tournament and playoff for some prize.

2. there's a couple of companies that charge a bar about $200/night to host 2 tournaments a night in their establishment. This has no entry fee and the winners all get points (100 pts for 1st, 90 for 2nd, etc.) and at the end of the month the top 8 players from each establishment/night play in a huge 100+ tournament where there's a substantial prize for 1st place (valued around $1000 usually) and paying to like 4 or 5 places.

My wife and I play in the 2nd form and enjoy it as a night out... it's not highly competitive and we have met some good friends through it. These games are not really going to resemble anything close to casino poker though because of the quality of players and getting past the whole "free chips" mentality. That doesn't mean it's a complete crapshoot though. You still have to be strategic to get in the top points to make it to the big monthly tourney.

Here's the tourney we play in:

http://www.lonestarpoker.net

Oh, and any form of poker is not "Legal" in Texas. Being free is considered a "Defense to prosecution" which wouldn't keep the fuzz from busting in with MP5s and confiscating your chips and prize money. So the DA doesn't want to prosecute, you still have to go through hell and probably just lost your business.

Hope this helps some.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

Oh, and any form of poker is not "Legal" in Texas. Being free is considered a "Defense to prosecution" which wouldn't keep the fuzz from busting in with MP5s and confiscating your chips and prize money. So the DA doesn't want to prosecute, you still have to go through hell and probably just lost your business.

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Cite, please.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

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Oh, and any form of poker is not "Legal" in Texas.
***
hime

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Actually, that's wrong. The game itself is legal. It's the wagering of real money in a public place that is illegal.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

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Cite, please.

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Texas Penal Code § 47.02. GAMBLING


(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the actor engaged in gambling in a private place;

(2) no person received any economic benefit other than personal winnings; and

(3) except for the advantage of skill or luck, the risks of losing and the chances of winning were the same for all participants.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and any form of poker is not "Legal" in Texas.
***
hime

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Actually, that's wrong. The game itself is legal. It's the wagering of real money in a public place that is illegal.

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You are correct, the game of poker itself cannot be considered illegal but not many would enjoy a game of hold'em without wagering something.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

Playing a non-raked game in Texas in a private place, where the house takes no money is legal. Or is at least a "defense to prosecution" which means you aren't going to be convicted.

As to the OP's question this can be done legally. We have a small bar here in town that has a large but separate restaurant attached to it. The bar/restaurant owner hosts two free poker tournaments on Sundays in his bar. He was very adamant about the legality of this because he said his state liquor license would be revoked if the poker game was not legal and he is not willing to take that chance.

What happens is simple. You enter to bar for free and if you would like you can put your name on the list to play in a free informal NL hold'em tournament. Sometimes during the year he will put up something like $20-$40 that will be paid out to the top 2 or 3 places. There is no entry fee, no tipping, no drink or food purchase required, nothing. His goal, which is easily achieved, is to get people like myself in there from time to time, who would otherwise have never entered the place and while I'm there order some food and/or drinks. Simple enough and it works.

He's actually upped the prize and come up with a cool little idea of giving away one big prize at the end of 10 weeks. Now there is a point system and two Sunday tournaments which you can earn points by playing in. The points system is fair and well thought out. At the end of the ten weeks the top 10 players with the most points play a single table tournament and the winner wins a buy-in to a $1,500 WSOP Circuit event in New Orleans. 100% of this money is put up by the bar owner, which makes it all legal.

No matter what state I was in, before I hosted a free public game like this, I would still contact an attorney for further clarification.

Re: Pub/Bar Poker in Texas
 

Check the laws regarding establishments with liquor licenses. When I was running one here in BC, I ran into a lot of problems that I could win in court if I had wanted to against the Gaming and Policy Enforcement Agency. But if the Liquor Board had stepped in and said "we don't want this type of game being played in drinking establishments", we would basically have no recourse since they've been given provincial authority to say what's allowed to go on inside pubs.