Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

6-way pot limped preflop.
Flop (300): 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Checked to the tightest player at the table, who bets 200. The small blind requires some explanation. He's a donk, but he's not playing crazy. He's one of those guys who thinks that playing tight is enough to make him not that bad so he generally plays postflop without much of a clue other than "don't call it off with nothing." He's also clearly very wealthy. In sum, he's an old touristy guy who hasn't shown anything special.

Anyway, he check/raises to 900 and tight guy calls.

Turn (2100): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Please note in case you're not paying attention that this puts up a straight flush.
The old guy checks and the tight guy bets 1600, old guy calls.
River (5300): 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Old guy takes a stack of 20k and sets it to the side as he plays with another stack of cash with about 6k in it. He flips the stack over again and again and again and then sets it down and takes the 20k stack and puts it in the middle with authority but not overly strongly. It is 17k to the tight guy.

In this situation, if you're the tight guy, what do you call with?

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

44

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

I think the old guy has quads, or a straight flush. Nothing else makes sense. I don't think I'd pay him off with less than quad 4s here. I also don't see how either of these guys could show up with a lone 4 or 7, and 33 is obviously an easy fold.

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

oh wow... nfi

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

i would not be able to fold 44, but i would almost never call with a 7 i don't think.

this is the way the guy you described would play what he percieves to be the nuts.

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

folding bottom quads would be beautiful.

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

FWIW, I think I fold quad 4s here but was wondering if anybody else thinks they could actually do it.

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

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folding bottom quads would be beautiful.

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Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

no fkin way I fold quads, I call 7x+ (although if tighty even got to the river with 74 I think thats pretty bad)

and my excuse is that it's live; I think an incorrect read on an this opponent is more likely to occur than a ridiculous cooler like quads/sf over bottom quads

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

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although if tighty even got to the river with 74 I think thats pretty bad)

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why? think he should 3bet the flop?

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

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although if tighty even got to the river with 74 I think thats pretty bad)

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why? think he should 3bet the flop?

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he should fold

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

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although if tighty even got to the river with 74 I think thats pretty bad)

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why? think he should 3bet the flop?

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he should fold

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wait, i think you have something wrong/confused. tighty is the guy in position who bet/calls flop and bets a turn 4 when checked to. at what point do you think he should fold?

at what point should either of these guys fold? i think i'm just not understanding you or you've got something mixed up

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

How much time did he take before checking the turn? If it was instantly I'd definitely be more inclined to call bottom quads, if he took some time pondering the board before checking, then I'd let it go I think.

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

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although if tighty even got to the river with 74 I think thats pretty bad)

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why? think he should 3bet the flop?

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he should fold

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wait, i think you have something wrong/confused. tighty is the guy in position who bet/calls flop and bets a turn 4 when checked to. at what point do you think he should fold?

at what point should either of these guys fold? i think i'm just not understanding you or you've got something mixed up

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not mixed up, sry for being confusing though. He should bet flop and fold to c/r

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

Tourist guy probably percieves any 7 to be the nuts, so I guess you have to call with 44 although I wouldn't be super happy about it.

EDIT: It would be pretty weird for him to check/call turn and then major overbet the river with 77, but it makes more sense for him to do that with just a lone 7, especially with a big kicker. Just in my experience of dealing with touristy donks.

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

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Tourist guy probably percieves any 7 to be the nuts, so I guess you have to call with 44 although I wouldn't be super happy about it.

EDIT: It would be pretty weird for him to check/call turn and then major overbet the river with 77, but it makes more sense for him to do that with just a lone 7, especially with a big kicker. Just in my experience of dealing with touristy donks.

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Given description of the SB here, he never ever ever shows up with a lone 7 here unless he has 74, and if he has 74 we can't have quad 4s. Calling with a 7 seems bad here since we're praying for a chop and there's only one hand with a lone 7 in it that villain can have here.

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

id need a full house.

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

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no fkin way I fold quads, I call 7x+ (although if tighty even got to the river with 74 I think thats pretty bad)

and my excuse is that it's live; I think an incorrect read on an this opponent is more likely to occur than a ridiculous cooler like quads/sf over bottom quads


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exactly my thoughts

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

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How much time did he take before checking the turn? If it was instantly I'd definitely be more inclined to call bottom quads, if he took some time pondering the board before checking, then I'd let it go I think.

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i didn't notice, but pretty sure it wasn't instantly

Re: Observed 25/50 Hand: What\'s Your Minimum to Stack off With?
 

I am pretty sure you should fold 44 here but I would never never do it.

RESULTS
 

Well, just wanted a quick snapshot of what people think. Tight guy showed a 4 and mucked and old fish triumphantly tabled...
99!

Everyone at the table thought he was a total fish and they were looking forward to taking his money. Me and the other guy in the hand just stared at him in awe and realization of what a sick play he just made.

Nobody saw it coming when he tabled his bluff.

Re: RESULTS
 

hsnl got pwned

Re: RESULTS
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, just wanted a quick snapshot of what people think. Tight guy showed a 4 and mucked and old fish triumphantly tabled...
99!

Everyone at the table thought he was a total fish and they were looking forward to taking his money. Me and the other guy in the hand just stared at him in awe and realization of what a sick play he just made.

Nobody saw it coming when he tabled his bluff.

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wtf, so tight guy had 44? theres no way

Re: RESULTS
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, just wanted a quick snapshot of what people think. Tight guy showed a 4 and mucked and old fish triumphantly tabled...
99!

Everyone at the table thought he was a total fish and they were looking forward to taking his money. Me and the other guy in the hand just stared at him in awe and realization of what a sick play he just made.

Nobody saw it coming when he tabled his bluff.

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wtf, so tight guy had 44? theres no way

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no, he had 45

Re: RESULTS
 

lawlz doesn't sound very tight

Re: RESULTS
 

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lawlz doesn't sound very tight [/quote

i guess deep in position he figured pair plus gutty was worth a peel. also, tight in live games just means "doesn't call preflop raises too loose" because EVERYBODY even the nits limp 45 whenever they don't think they're getting raised.

Re: RESULTS
 

thats why playing 400bb deep is so sick, i guess

Re: RESULTS
 

wow i hate to be a hater especially cuz i really think everyone who has posted in this thread is a great poster but WTF??????????????????????
you guys seriously talking about folding quads IN A LIVE GAME????? esp to someone with the description given???????


wow i wonder if stephenuts feels like this everytime he posts....cuz that would explain it.

Re: RESULTS
 

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: RESULTS
 

hahaha sick hand

Re: RESULTS
 

I think the most telling sign of weakness was when he switched from the 6k stack to the 20k stack.

Sick play though.

Re: RESULTS
 

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wow i hate to be a hater especially cuz i really think everyone who has posted in this thread is a great poster but WTF??????????????????????
you guys seriously talking about folding quads IN A LIVE GAME????? esp to someone with the description given???????


wow i wonder if stephenuts feels like this everytime he posts....cuz that would explain it.

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Thanks Jonas [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Folding quads in a LIVE game,is something I just couldnt bring myself to do,unless some insanely live read or circumstance comes about.

If the guy even showed me his two hole cards,I still might have a hard time mucking them...lol

Re: RESULTS
 

Sick, sick play... I really still agree with the majority, with the given description I'd call 44+ or 74 but I'd prepare for a huge cooler...

I might even think I should fold 44 in that spot but I probably wouldn't be able to do it.... EVER

Re: RESULTS
 

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wow i hate to be a hater especially cuz i really think everyone who has posted in this thread is a great poster but WTF??????????????????????
you guys seriously talking about folding quads IN A LIVE GAME????? esp to someone with the description given???????


wow i wonder if stephenuts feels like this everytime he posts....cuz that would explain it.

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i folded quads in a live game before, but that was back when i was nitty enough to be asking about betting top boat on the river, the other guy was nittier than i was, and I had 66 on a K66 board and we got in 4 bets before he just called, the turn came a K,and he check/raised me all in when we were playing the hand like 3000 BB deep.

i don't even know why i bet the turn when i was putting him on KK on the flop, but I sucked back then.

Re: RESULTS
 

[ QUOTE ]
wow i hate to be a hater especially cuz i really think everyone who has posted in this thread is a great poster but WTF??????????????????????
you guys seriously talking about folding quads IN A LIVE GAME????? esp to someone with the description given???????


wow i wonder if stephenuts feels like this everytime he posts....cuz that would explain it.

[/ QUOTE ]

stephensNUTS=rbk

Re: RESULTS
 

you ppl who are saying "how can you fold quads in a live game???" does this mean you'd fold quads online?? i would never ever fold quads online...or live...

Re: RESULTS
 

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i folded quads in a live game before, but that was back when i was nitty enough to be asking about betting top boat on the river...

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http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/show...rt=all&vc=1

Re: RESULTS
 

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i folded quads in a live game before, but that was back when i was nitty enough to be asking about betting top boat on the river...

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http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/show...rt=all&vc=1

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damn, it's amazing how good people's responses were back then and how much time people put into their responses.

Re: RESULTS
 

wtf, ml4l in that thread talks about people turning a boat into a bluff, so they can rep quads when they know you have a higher boat

"The second reason is that a skilled opponent is going to check-raise bluff (with his 99/22) some percentage of the time." on 249K4 board

Re: RESULTS
 

fwf wrote:

"AJo and petefabrizio-I don't know who you two are but if you think I'm such a pussy I'll play you heads-up any time for any amount of money. "

badass [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]