Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

New 9/17 update: We have the Potripper final table HH: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=beats&Number=1212 3790

Extra special mod note: random conspiracy theories about AP's rigged flops, other sites, or online poker in general = instaban. Take it to other threads or p5's.

new mod edit: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12111494

Adanthar requested someone make a cliffsnotes thread to condense the already massive thread, so here goes.

There was a thread in High Stakes Limit that has been up for maybe a week or so, with speculation that a few high stakes limit players could see hole cards. Accounts under suspicion were STEAMROLLER , DOUBLEDRAG , and GRAYCAT . The suspicion had to do with the Win% at showdown, river aggression factor, and their extremely loose preflop stats.

POTRIPPER also made it very deep in a $1k NL tourney, making expert calls like:

Stage #896976330 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $4500 - 2007-09-13 01:43:49 (ET)
Table: 14 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($765740 in chips)
Seat 8 - CRAZYMARCO ($214260 in chips)
POTRIPPER - Ante $450
CRAZYMARCO - Ante $450
POTRIPPER - Posts small blind $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Posts big blind $4500
*** POCKET CARDS ***
POTRIPPER - Calls $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
*** FLOP *** [4h Kd Kh]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $9000
CRAZYMARCO - Calls $9000
*** TURN *** [4h Kd Kh] [7s]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $13500
CRAZYMARCO - All-In(Raise) $200310 to $200310
POTRIPPER - Calls $186810
*** RIVER *** [4h Kd Kh 7s] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
POTRIPPER - Shows [10c 9c] (One pair, kings)
CRAZYMARCO - Shows [9h 2h] (One pair, kings)
POTRIPPER Collects $428520 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($428520)
Board [4h Kd Kh 7s 5s]
Seat 3: POTRIPPER (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($428520) HI:($428520) with One pair, kings(ten kicker) [10c 9c - B:Kh,B:Kd,P:10c,P:9c,B:7s]
Seat 8: CRAZYMARCO (big blind) HI:lost with One pair, kings [9h 2h - B:Kh,B:Kd,P:9h,B:7s,B:5s]



After some time (or maybe after xposted to BBV), some suspicion was also brought up regarding these players NL play, mostly at 10/20 and 15/30 NL. They all played a VERY loose preflop style (90/80ish) with hudge river aggression factors. These "superusers" were much easier to spot at NL, especially given about 100 hands of HU from ikestoys vs. DOUBLEDRAG. In the 100 hands, the 3 times Doubledrag folded were when ikestoys had QQ-AA, or when another player 3bet before Doubledrag could act.

It was then brought up that these accounts are very likely the same person, perhaps Mark Seif. Hold on, Let me get my DOOMSWITCH. He was playing HU at 75/150 poo fling, playing terribly and dropping a couple k. Then he says "one second punk"....leaves the table.....then comes back about a minute later and announces "I'm ready to take you down." (from linked thread). Highlights following this involved openfolding when his opponent flopped a boat and capping bottom pair when ahead, etc.

So I think thats the gist of it. It is pretty obvious that if these guys are colluding they are very bad at it and arent really hiding it at all. It is possible the accounts are an AP insider who is disgruntled (Seif was fired a month or 2 ago) and is trying to tarnish the sites reputation.

Nothing is 100% proven yet. There are a few hands where the accounts play in a way where it is not obvious they can see cards:

STAGE #753356407: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-09-04 17:21:03 (ET)
Table: ALHAMBRA (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - DOUBLEDRAG ($19435 in chips)
Seat 6 - PRIMOGENITOX ($3041 in chips)
Seat 3 - PTOWNER ($8196 in chips)
Seat 4 - THE GRINDER ($7396 in chips)
PRIMOGENITOX - Posts small blind $15
PTOWNER - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to PRIMOGENITOX [Qd Qh]
THE GRINDER - Raises $120 to $120
DOUBLEDRAG - Raises $270 to $270
PRIMOGENITOX - Raises $985 to $1000
PTOWNER - Folds
THE GRINDER - Folds
DOUBLEDRAG - Folds
PRIMOGENITOX - returned ($730) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PRIMOGENITOX - Does not show
PRIMOGENITOX Collects $690 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($690)
Seat 3: PTOWNER (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: THE GRINDER Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: DOUBLEDRAG (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 6: PRIMOGENITOX (small blind) collected Total ($690)


Seat 5 - HOWDUZZYDOIT ($16.50 in chips)
Seat 1 - FRISCOMELT ($8301 in chips)
Seat 2 - FU_BEGGAR ($6000 in chips)
Seat 4 - DOUBLEDRAG ($2365 in chips)
FRISCOMELT - Posts small blind $15
FU_BEGGAR - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
DOUBLEDRAG - Raises $90 to $90
HOWDUZZYDOIT - Folds
FRISCOMELT - Calls $75
FU_BEGGAR - Folds
*** FLOP *** [6d 4d Kc]
FRISCOMELT - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Bets $90
FRISCOMELT - Calls $90
*** TURN *** [6d 4d Kc] [Jc]
FRISCOMELT - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Bets $480
FRISCOMELT - Calls $480
*** RIVER *** [6d 4d Kc Jc] [2c]
FRISCOMELT - Bets $7170
DOUBLEDRAG - All-In $1705
FRISCOMELT - returned ($5465) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
FRISCOMELT - Shows [8c 7c] (Flush, king high)
DOUBLEDRAG - Mucks
FRISCOMELT Collects $4758 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($4760) | Rake ($2)
Board [6d 4d Kc Jc 2c]
Seat 1: FRISCOMELT (small blind) won Total ($4758) HI:($4758) wit Flush, king high [8c 7c - B:Kc,B:Jc,P:8c,P:7c,B:2c]
Seat 2: FU_BEGGAR (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: DOUBLEDRAG HI: [Mucked] [Qs 2s]
Seat 5: HOWDUZZYDOIT (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS

And some screenshots:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/491/graycatrb9.jpg http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4894/dragxm4.jpg http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...doubledrag.jpg http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4...bledragbd7.jpg http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8682/moredragem8.jpg

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

Teh funnies:

kkcountry
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m.../holecards.jpg

ADMO
http://www.adamrichardson.com/2p2/GTA-Absolute.jpg

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

cliff notes?

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

A+

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

no love imsa [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/a...tyfive/abs.png

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

[ QUOTE ]
cliff notes?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was as concise as I could make them without missing important stuff (IMO)

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

[ QUOTE ]
no love imsa [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/a...tyfive/abs.png

[/ QUOTE ]

OO I forgot about that one, I was scrolling through the 700 posts trying to find images, sorry [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

Excellent compilation, Imsa.

And GODDAMN Admo is sick good.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

Here's another hand that goes against the theory:

STAGE #653188419: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-05-10 03:23:44 (ET)
Table: DEERE AVE (Real Money) Seat #6 is the dealer
Seat 6 - MBLOOM1 ($3034 in chips)
Seat 5 - GRAYCAT ($7841 in chips)
MBLOOM1 - Posts small blind $15
GRAYCAT - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to MBLOOM1 [Qd Qs]
MBLOOM1 - Raises $84 to $99
GRAYCAT - Raises $258 to $288
MBLOOM1 - Raises $579 to $678
GRAYCAT - All-In(Raise) $7553 to $7841
MBLOOM1 - All-In $2356
GRAYCAT - returned ($4807) : not called
*** FLOP *** [3c 10h 5h]
*** TURN *** [3c 10h 5h] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [3c 10h 5h 7c] [6s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
GRAYCAT - Shows [9c 9h] (One pair, nines)
MBLOOM1 - Shows [Qd Qs] (One pair, queens)
MBLOOM1 Collects $6067 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($6068) | Rake ($1)
Board [3c 10h 5h 7c 6s]
Seat 5: GRAYCAT (big blind) HI:lost with One pair, nines [9c 9h - P:9h,P:9c,B:10h,B:7c,B:6s]
Seat 6: MBLOOM1 (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($6067) All-In HI$6067) with One pair, queens [Qd Qs - P:Qs,P:Qd,B:10h,B:7c,B:6s]

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

To people who say to scan your computers,

Most likely, it's not a trojan. I'm 99.99% sure it's not a trojan that he uses. I'll put money on that graycat or the "superusers" did not use trojans to see people's hole cards. He may have hacked the absolute software or it was intentionally rigged by absolute. So who knows. So don't worry about scanning your computers.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's another hand that goes against the theory:

STAGE #653188419: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-05-10 03:23:44 (ET)
Table: DEERE AVE (Real Money) Seat #6 is the dealer
Seat 6 - MBLOOM1 ($3034 in chips)
Seat 5 - GRAYCAT ($7841 in chips)
MBLOOM1 - Posts small blind $15
GRAYCAT - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to MBLOOM1 [Qd Qs]
MBLOOM1 - Raises $84 to $99
GRAYCAT - Raises $258 to $288
MBLOOM1 - Raises $579 to $678
GRAYCAT - All-In(Raise) $7553 to $7841
MBLOOM1 - All-In $2356
GRAYCAT - returned ($4807) : not called
*** FLOP *** [3c 10h 5h]
*** TURN *** [3c 10h 5h] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [3c 10h 5h 7c] [6s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
GRAYCAT - Shows [9c 9h] (One pair, nines)
MBLOOM1 - Shows [Qd Qs] (One pair, queens)
MBLOOM1 Collects $6067 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($6068) | Rake ($1)
Board [3c 10h 5h 7c 6s]
Seat 5: GRAYCAT (big blind) HI:lost with One pair, nines [9c 9h - P:9h,P:9c,B:10h,B:7c,B:6s]
Seat 6: MBLOOM1 (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($6067) All-In HI$6067) with One pair, queens [Qd Qs - P:Qs,P:Qd,B:10h,B:7c,B:6s]

[/ QUOTE ]

Note the date? If the suspicion is it was in the last 1-2 months, this is 4 months old? I'm not sure about the whole timeframe though.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

from the end of the other thread

[ QUOTE ]
He said, and I QUOTE: "99.9% of the players cannot see the other players' hole cards."

[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT

THE

[censored]

?????

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

more ms paint

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=1#Post12105122

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

[ QUOTE ]
To people who say to scan your computers,

Most likely, it's not a trojan. I'm 99.99% sure it's not a trojan that he uses. I'll put money on that graycat or the "superusers" did not use trojans to see people's hole cards. He may have hacked the absolute software or it was intentionally rigged by absolute. So who knows. So don't worry about scanning your computers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Especially given the donkament HH, a trojan seems very unlikely. I think a disgruntled ex-employee or software developer is the main culprit.

Another point brought up in the main thread (paraphrased) is that Absolute had employees who would "grind" the lower limit games (with holecards) and would have a certain quota to meet of earnings or whatever.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

Is it too late to edit your post, IMSA? There are some errors.

The 3 players under suspicion were STEAMROLLER, GREYCAT and DOUBLEDRAG.

The LHE thread was moved to the mod forum, adanthar sounded the alarm, and THEN he was notified about the POTRIPPER hand.

Plus, in the original LHE thread, LHE and NLHE hands are discussed. The POTRIPPER hand was the last and most unsubstantiated part.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is it too late to edit your post, IMSA? There are some errors.

The 3 players under suspicion were STEAMROLLER, GREYCAT and DOUBLEDRAG.

The LHE thread was moved to the mod forum, adanthar sounded the alarm, and THEN he was notified about the POTRIPPER hand.

Plus, in the original LHE thread, LHE and NLHE hands are discussed. The POTRIPPER hand was the last and most unsubstantiated part.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did potripper have any cash hands? Maybe he is just a big fish.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

Not that we know of. The POTRIPPER aspect has not yielded any more fruit yet, but we have to understand less than 24 hrs. have elapsed since this blew up.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
another summary if you don't like this one

[/ QUOTE ]


That's so bizarre, why did he also detail the POTRIPPER aspect first? The PT shots first are obviously the best way to hit somebody in the head.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

There are several ways/methods how he knows opponent's cards.
What *is* known is that he can "only" see opponent's hole cards. He knows hole cards of *every* opponent and not just some. He cannot see community cards and from here we can draw following conclusions:

* He infected each player individually with trojan horse
- unlikely - He must get player's IP + player's computer
has to be vulnerable

* He hacked into main server (where cards are dealt,
evaluators, rngs are)
- unlikely - he would have seen community cards also

* He hacked web server (with SQL injection, XSS, etc... or
is web designer with access to this server)
- most likely - all he had to do is add a backdoor in AP's
software and replace it with one on the server. He needs
to do this only when AP is upgrading and only for one
upgrade. Later upgrades doesn't need to be backdoored
anymore since your computer stays compromised from first
upgrade. Of course he can put trojan in next upgrade if
he wants to infect new players.

* Java based client
- I haven't looked into it but it is possible Java client
is getting some data that shouldn't be sent (hole cards)

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
* Java based client
- I haven't looked into it but it is possible Java client
is getting some data that shouldn't be sent (hole cards)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't this be soooooooo easy to exploit?

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

GRAYCAT's MTT history on AP:

Date Buyin Tournament/Event Place Entrants Winnings
9/15/2007 $10 NL Hold'em 344 644 —
9/12/2007 $1,000 NL Hold'em 43 98 —
8/27/2007 $2 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 38 92 —
8/25/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 22 306 $1,071.00
8/21/2007 $20 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 115 134 —
8/19/2007 $150 NL Hold'em 219 552 —
8/18/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 19 365 $1,277.50
8/9/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 2239 2248 —
8/5/2007 $50 NL Hold'em 256 256 —
8/4/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 309 314 —
7/28/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 142 333 —
7/26/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 1832 2190 —
7/26/2007 $0.25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 1 172 $5.00
7/25/2007 $1,000 NL Hold'em 86 93 —
7/25/2007 $0.25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 141 168 —
7/25/2007 $20 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 128 133 —
7/24/2007 $25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 8 10 —
7/23/2007 $15 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 1 19 $530.00
7/23/2007 $20 PL Omaha Hi/Lo 94 94 —
7/23/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 442 527 —
7/23/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 296 297 —
7/22/2007 $150 NL Hold'em 450 474 —
7/21/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 291 299 —
7/19/2007 $1 NL Hold'em 1456 1585 —
7/19/2007 $50 NL Hold'em 169 235 —
7/19/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 64 135 —
7/19/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 280 284 —
7/19/2007 $0.10 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 115 217 —
7/14/2007 $5 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 19 132 —
7/14/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 214 284 —
7/13/2007 $5 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 82 89 —
6/30/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 273 300 —
6/20/2007 $25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 38 39 —
6/20/2007 $25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 40 42 —
6/19/2007 $25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 30 33 —
5/17/2007 $100 NL Hold'em 45 45 —
5/15/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 147 230 —
5/13/2007 $150 NL Hold'em 175 392 —
5/11/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 14 17 —
5/8/2007 $50 NL Hold'em 142 150 —

He's stuck 4k with a -60% ROI

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
another summary if you don't like this one

[/ QUOTE ]


That's so bizarre, why did he also detail the POTRIPPER aspect first? The PT shots first are obviously the best way to hit somebody in the head.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just followed the chronology in the main thread. Seemed like that was a good starting point. Agree, though, that the PT stats are the skull-crusher.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

I sat next to Seif in the WPT Legends of Poker a few weeks ago and he was wearing an Absolute polo shirt. he also played really bad and I got a good laugh out of it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
* He hacked into main server (where cards are dealt,
evaluators, rngs are)
- unlikely - he would have seen community cards also

[/ QUOTE ]

does absolute use a constant shuffle? no way to know community cards if this is the case.

[ QUOTE ]
* He hacked web server (with SQL injection, XSS, etc... or
is web designer with access to this server)
- most likely - all he had to do is add a backdoor in AP's
software and replace it with one on the server. He needs
to do this only when AP is upgrading and only for one
upgrade. Later upgrades doesn't need to be backdoored
anymore since your computer stays compromised from first
upgrade. Of course he can put trojan in next upgrade if
he wants to infect new players.

[/ QUOTE ]

this actually seems pretty unlikely and maybe impossible. if he chagnes an update then the next update that runs isn't giong to work right because stuff isn't going to be in the places it expects it. also the updates will fail any MD5 hash test and anyone who reinstalled absolute wouldn't be vulnerable unless he was backdooring every update.

kinda just sounds like you wanted to use some fancy sounding computer security words

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

Well, here's another development:


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=1#Post12106705


STUCKINPGH just came out of the woodwork to post. He is the one that ICFISHIES alleges lost on a ton to Mark Seif's SUPER REVENGE in the linked thread.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

[ QUOTE ]
To people who say to scan your computers,

Most likely, it's not a trojan. I'm 99.99% sure it's not a trojan that he uses. I'll put money on that graycat or the "superusers" did not use trojans to see people's hole cards. He may have hacked the absolute software or it was intentionally rigged by absolute. So who knows. So don't worry about scanning your computers.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you dont want us to scan our computers? I mean its no real hassle to scan our computers and it is something we should do on a fairly regular basis. So why are you going to such great lengths to get us to not scan our computers?

Its quite obvious you must have some ulterior motive and therefore by simple extrapolation must be one of the scammers involved in this scandle.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
* Java based client
- I haven't looked into it but it is possible Java client
is getting some data that shouldn't be sent (hole cards)

[/ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]

this could be a possibility correct?

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]

* He hacked into main server (where cards are dealt,
evaluators, rngs are)
- unlikely - he would have seen community cards also


[/ QUOTE ]

Not if the cards are randomly selected after each betting round.

[ QUOTE ]

* He hacked web server (with SQL injection, XSS, etc... or
is web designer with access to this server)
- most likely - all he had to do is add a backdoor in AP's
software and replace it with one on the server. He needs
to do this only when AP is upgrading and only for one
upgrade. Later upgrades doesn't need to be backdoored
anymore since your computer stays compromised from first
upgrade. Of course he can put trojan in next upgrade if
he wants to infect new players.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't it be trivial to find out if the software sent data to a 3rd party between betting rounds?

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

This should also be included in the history if you can edit still. Not that it implicates Mark Seif but it implies that this has been possible for over a year and a half.


I am still amazed and beyond disgusted at what I saw and heard very late last night/early in the morning at Absolute Poker...and I don't even know what to do about it. The irony of this happening the night after my "poker ethics" post is too much, also:

Anyone who has watched the 75/150 game there knows that Mark Seif (who is the site's signature pro and part-owner) has been extremely abusive lately of the other players when he's at the table.......always banning other players' chat in an instant and threatening account closure, etc. He has lost a lot a money at that 75 game (the resident pros consider him the big fish there) and it's been pretty obvious lately that it was starting to get to him more and more.

Anyway......stuckinpgh (my good friend Mike) is one of a handful of high-limit players who have managed to get under Mark's skin in recent weeks. It was evident that Seif was not fond of Mike and would tilt sometimes. Only this time, it turned out to be a lot worse than harmless trash talk.

Last night, Seif was actually having a good session for a few hours at the 75 table. Eventually the game mostly broke up, and it was just Seif and Mike heads up. After some see-saw action, Mike started to get the best of him again and was ahead maybe 4 or 5 k for the HU time, I'd say. At that point, Seif says something like "one second punk"....leaves the table.....then comes back about a minute later and announces "I'm ready to take you down."

Play then started again......and I saw something that I never have before in all my on-line poker play: obvious manipulation. Every hand was a complete dissection based on whatever Mike was holding (third pair was capped by Seif if Mike was behind or bluffing, for example.) About 10 or 12 k was basically stolen in 15 minutes (over maybe 100 hands), and here's the kicker: he was so pissed and beyond rational thinking that he actually wanted Mike to know what was going on! For example, Mike had K9 on one hand and flopped a boat. Seif was first to act after the flop, and FOLDED OUT OF TURN just that time. I had heard that Seif was having some personal problems, but who would've ever guessed that he could be capable of this. Between that possibility and the abuse that he's taken from the pros (in chat, $ lost, and pride lost at the tables), he must've finally snapped and lowered himself THAT much to get some revenge. We were simply stunned, and all Mike could do at the time was leave the game and withdraw the rest of his money (which he did get already.)

I have never played in a game with Mark Seif myself (or ever said a word to him), so none of this information is based on anything personal between him and me. I'm only trying to help out a good friend here and to call some needed attention to what happened. If Seif is capable of this, then it's a scary thought to trust your money to that site. And to think I was just about to deposit to play the 75 game myself.


http://www.internettexasholdem.com/phpbb...as-vt34808.html

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
does absolute use a constant shuffle? no way to know community cards if this is the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know. You are right if it does though.

[ QUOTE ]
this actually seems pretty unlikely and maybe impossible. if he chagnes an update then the next update that runs isn't giong to work right because stuff isn't going to be in the places it expects it. also the updates will fail any MD5 hash test and anyone who reinstalled absolute wouldn't be vulnerable unless he was backdooring every update.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. MD5 can be fooled. Files can have same size, same MD5 and still be different (backdoored).

[ QUOTE ]
kinda just sounds like you wanted to use some fancy sounding computer security words

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Maybe I did sound like that. English is not my first language.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

Integrity

You can feel safe playing at Absolute Poker. Great care has been taken to provide our players with the safest place to play poker online. Integrity is a key part of our mission statement and will continue to be our focus as we strive to continue to be the best and most trusted online poker site in the market. When the stakes are on the line, we have gone, and will continue to go to great lengths to do everything possible to offer the most honest and fair games played on the web.

Our security and safety measures and procedures are constantly reviewed and updated regularly to ensure that our players have a safe place to play poker. A strong competitive advantage is obvious when taking a closer look at the measures taken in respect to banking, collusion, hackers & the randomness of our card shuffling software at Absolute Poker.

Hackers

Absolute Poker is secure in the transfer of any information between its players and our Absolute servers. We utilize the internationally accepted industry standard SSLv3/TLSv1 encryption algorithm to protect your information as it transfers between our client application running on your computer and our servers. So whether it is credit card, your name, password, your cards, your personal address and any other private information is protected. Player cards are sent directly and exclusively to the individual player's computer without ever being susceptible of being hacked. Also no other computer playing at your table can see your face down cards. This security is the best available and prevents any hacking and ultimately collusion to take place.

Card Shuffling

It is critical for card shuffling to take place using a shuffle algorithm as part of our software. This shuffling algorithm is fair and unpredictable. Please see our RNG certificate. There is no deck of cards that is shuffled as thoroughly as the Absolute Poker algorithm shuffles our cards. Each game, the deck is shuffled 10 times with each shuffle moving each card somewhere between 1 and 51 times throughout the deck (10 passes at Knuth's full shuffle algorithm).

In addition to the shuffling algorithm, Absolute Poker uses a random number generator. The entropy pool needs to be large enough to allow it to be impossible for any player to have an advantage over the other players. Absolute Poker's Random Number Generator has been fully certified as random by a well known third party, Technical Testing Systems, Inc, http://www.tstglobal.com/.

If you have any questions with regard to any integrity or security issues, please do not hesitate to contact us .

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

Riverfenix that link is there. "Hold on, let me get my DOOMSWITCH".

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
GRAYCAT's MTT history on AP:

Date Buyin Tournament/Event Place Entrants Winnings
9/15/2007 $10 NL Hold'em 344 644 —
9/12/2007 $1,000 NL Hold'em 43 98 —
8/27/2007 $2 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 38 92 —
8/25/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 22 306 $1,071.00
8/21/2007 $20 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 115 134 —
8/19/2007 $150 NL Hold'em 219 552 —
8/18/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 19 365 $1,277.50
8/9/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 2239 2248 —
8/5/2007 $50 NL Hold'em 256 256 —
8/4/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 309 314 —
7/28/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 142 333 —
7/26/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 1832 2190 —
7/26/2007 $0.25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 1 172 $5.00
7/25/2007 $1,000 NL Hold'em 86 93 —
7/25/2007 $0.25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 141 168 —
7/25/2007 $20 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 128 133 —
7/24/2007 $25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 8 10 —
7/23/2007 $15 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 1 19 $530.00
7/23/2007 $20 PL Omaha Hi/Lo 94 94 —
7/23/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 442 527 —
7/23/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 296 297 —
7/22/2007 $150 NL Hold'em 450 474 —
7/21/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 291 299 —
7/19/2007 $1 NL Hold'em 1456 1585 —
7/19/2007 $50 NL Hold'em 169 235 —
7/19/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 64 135 —
7/19/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 280 284 —
7/19/2007 $0.10 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 115 217 —
7/14/2007 $5 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 19 132 —
7/14/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 214 284 —
7/13/2007 $5 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 82 89 —
6/30/2007 $500 NL Hold'em 273 300 —
6/20/2007 $25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 38 39 —
6/20/2007 $25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 40 42 —
6/19/2007 $25 NL Hold'em+Rebuys 30 33 —
5/17/2007 $100 NL Hold'em 45 45 —
5/15/2007 $5 NL Hold'em 147 230 —
5/13/2007 $150 NL Hold'em 175 392 —
5/11/2007 $3 NL Hold'em 14 17 —
5/8/2007 $50 NL Hold'em 142 150 —

He's stuck 4k with a -60% ROI

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok guys, here it is...Ultimate proof that donkaments are all luck. I mean the guy can see his opponents hole cards, and still he's a loser.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To people who say to scan your computers,

Most likely, it's not a trojan. I'm 99.99% sure it's not a trojan that he uses. I'll put money on that graycat or the "superusers" did not use trojans to see people's hole cards. He may have hacked the absolute software or it was intentionally rigged by absolute. So who knows. So don't worry about scanning your computers.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you dont want us to scan our computers? I mean its no real hassle to scan our computers and it is something we should do on a fairly regular basis. So why are you going to such great lengths to get us to not scan our computers?

Its quite obvious you must have some ulterior motive and therefore by simple extrapolation must be one of the scammers involved in this scandle.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

Look at all of the poker tracker stats, all less than 150 hands. I am not convinced.

Tbh I think a lot of you are over reacting and getting caught up in a frenzy over what really consists of very very little evidence other than some bad beat stories and VERY small sample sizes.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't it be trivial to find out if the software sent data to a 3rd party between betting rounds?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not saying client is sending data. Trojan is append to the client when downloading from server but separated after install.

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look at all of the poker tracker stats, all less than 150 hands. I am not convinced.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can You play 10k hands with someone who is making at least 500bb/100!!?!

Re: Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look at all of the poker tracker stats, all less than 150 hands. I am not convinced.

Tbh I think a lot of you are over reacting and getting caught up in a frenzy over what really consists of very very little evidence other than some bad beat stories and VERY small sample sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you crazy?