Weird hand against Good2cu
 

Hes playing lag. Reraises me pre a lot, but not more than anyone else. After the hand I thought river was an easy fold, but maybe im wrong. Read is he would bet most overpairs on the flop and certianly two pair and trips. Flop check represents something with a trace of showdown value to me.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Hero ($995)
BB ($1143)
UTG ($185)
MP ($3797.65)
CO ($1260)
Button ($2606.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $40</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $120</font>, Hero calls $80.

Flop: ($240) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks.

Turn: ($240) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $180</font>, BB calls $180.

River: ($600) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB calls $843 (All-In).

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

id expect to see 98/99 an aweful lot here

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

if he has something with a trace of showdown value then why is he not showing it down? theres just so many hands he can have here including straights, flushes, two pairs (yes i think its possible he shoves TJ/QJ here) and given the pot odds, u have to be right an awful lot in order to make money in the long run. frankly i dont even know if he ever bluffs here.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

i really agree with dan here.... good lags will often check behind in this situation when they have a mediocre hand. He'd prob cbet with really good hands and air. It doesn't seem like he'd really bluff here when he should be playing for showdown value... unless he is going aejones on us all

he could play AcKx like this too

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

id fold

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

Smells like AQ/JQ to me, I would fold.

Is pf standard? I don't call here too much.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

I don't get preflop either. Seems to me that by calling and playing OOP your gonna get in all sorts of sticky postflop stuff.

I like a 4 bet shove here pre if you think your ahead.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

Theres not many hands in his range that dont hit that board harder than we do. And him having a 9 is very very possible here. I def fold the river

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

[ QUOTE ]
id fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

AK w/ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

foldfoldfoldfold

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

dont bet the turn. fold the river. i wouldnt even call preflop, actually.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

This just confirms my suspicions that its a very easy fold. I beat almost nothing. I called and lost.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

[ QUOTE ]
dont bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

turn is BAD.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get preflop either. Seems to me that by calling and playing OOP your gonna get in all sorts of sticky postflop stuff.
I like a 4 bet shove here pre if you think your ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't get this play, so i started doing the math. It's below and might be helpfull to others. Imo it's really close. However pushing sends a strong signal to BB.

READ: "Hes playing lag. Reraises me pre a lot, but not more than anyone else"

Let's say you open /w any A, K9o+ any pair, 45s+ KTs+ KJo+.
Around 25%

Let's say his 3bet range is something like: any pair, 78s+, A8s+ A9o+ or something like that.
That's 14% of his possible holdings.

So 'only' 1 out of 7 times he reraises in a blind battle.

It's obvious you should fold 'drawing' hands to his 3bet. Hands like 22/67s are easy folds, because you're OOP and he doesn't need to have a big hand in this position, so the implied odds are not that big.

But you cant start folding everething other than JJ+, AK.
If he 3bets you 14% of the time (or even more) you need to start playing back. In that case big aces go indeed way up in value.

But if you push and he calls your push with JJ+, AQ+ (4,2% of his hands, or 30% of his reraise range) you've only got 25,6% equity.

Let's put things together:

After his reraise the pot is 160$. If you push, he folds 70% and calls with the other 30%.
You push 960$, and win 160$ in 70% of the hands,
if he calls your EV = 512$ - 960$
(512$-960$) * .3 + 160$ * .7 = -22.2$

-22.2$ compared to folding (which is way closer than I thought)

(If he starts folding AQo/AQs your EV= +44.34$)
If he reraises more than 14% your EV will go up more, which is likely if he's really playing LAG.

It's really hard to estimate your EV if you call (which i thougt is standard in this spot), but I see the why pushing is a real option now.

Are my ranges reasonable?

On topic; Why would he ever bluf here with a mediocre hand? I guess he has clubs / TJ/QJ/QT. Easy fold.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dont bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[/ QUOTE ]

what does qft mean?

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

Just realized that 67s has more equity vs a AQo, JJ+ range. (32.8% instead of 25.6). Should you start pushing those hands a certain %, because of ~0 EV but huge image improvements (both if callt and if not)

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

something with a trace of showdown value like... 99?

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

good2cu plays on party?

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dont bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[/ QUOTE ]

what does qft mean?

[/ QUOTE ]quit [censored] talking...or quoted for truth.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

[ QUOTE ]
id expect to see 98/99 an aweful lot here

[/ QUOTE ]

I cant see 99 or 89 calling that turn. What about AK with A or K of flushdraw.? This seems likely.
even though his line looks weak, or like a steal, I really can't call here. Maybe this is why I am playing lower than 5-10.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

[ QUOTE ]

he could play AcKx like this too

[/ QUOTE ]

This was one of my initial thoughts.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

c/f every street do not bet turn

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

results?

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

how is this weird, AK just got there

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

I still dont mind betting the turn, and havnt heard any great reasons why it shouldnt be bet. I posted results early in the thread like 2 weeks ago. I made a bad call and knew it right after.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

[ QUOTE ]
I still dont mind betting the turn, and havnt heard any great reasons why it shouldnt be bet. I posted results early in the thread like 2 weeks ago. I made a bad call and knew it right after.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind the turn bet myself.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

Everything got there, so I call.

Haha.

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
id expect to see 98/99 an aweful lot here

[/ QUOTE ]

I cant see 99 or 89 calling that turn. What about AK with A or K of flushdraw.? This seems likely.
even though his line looks weak, or like a steal, I really can't call here. Maybe this is why I am playing lower than 5-10.

[/ QUOTE ]

why woudlnt 89/99 (or t9) call the turn? especially if they have a club in their hand. They check for pot control and to induce a bluff.... and when you induce you like to.......call!

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

why dont you guys like a turn bet. too much calls you and you are usually not getting paid on river?

Re: Weird hand against Good2cu
 

uhhhh i wouldnt beat yourself up over this fold at all.
edit: just read the thread, and you called. uhh... damn. not the best of calls.