Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

So i just got into a huge fight with my mother over gay rights. Basically she is a typical conservative, and i of course am not. She believes that allowing gays to marry would decrease family values in the Us, and therefore ruin the society fabric of a "family". I told her that adding a title and a few rights (such as tax benefits and insurance sharing for couples) would not have an impact at all on straight families. The same number of people will be gay, regardless. I proceeded to say that i felt that not believing in equal rights for gays and straight couples was bigotted. Of course she was angry and hung up on me. Thoughts?

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

I agree with you, but it's hard for someone whose beliefs are as ingrained as hers likely are to see things that way. Dod you try pointing out that the family values she spoke of don't really exist in the universal sense in 51% divorce rate-America?

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

Yeah, probably.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

Agreed...keep bringing the fight. Stay in people's faces. It causes strife, but it ultimately changes some minds. Force people to think about things they'd rather ignore.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

I think you should call her up tomorrow and tell her you are gay and see how she reacts.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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I think you should call her up tomorrow and tell her you are gay and see how she reacts.

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Im pretty sure this would result in a complete breakdown. Telling them i played poker for a living was bad enough. If i was gay that converstion would be a complete disaster lol...

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

People who claim that allowing gay marriage would decrease family values are full of crap. If anything, gay families may have stronger family values on average. A couple that decides to stick it out and raise a child, despite all the current prejudice, is going to be able to teach their children acceptance and resolve that a large number of parents can't.

Over 50% of marriages end in divorce right now. I don't think gay people are going to do much damage to family values.

Of course not believing in gay rights is bigoted.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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Agreed...keep bringing the fight. Stay in people's faces. It causes strife, but it ultimately changes some minds. Force people to think about things they'd rather ignore.

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I can only hope you are not talking about the fight for some butt pirates to marry each other.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

How many openly gay posters are there on 2+2?

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So you want her to be non-judgemental about the sex lives of others while you are being judgemental about her values?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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How many openly gay posters are there on 2+2?

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Big Steve, and now OP I think...

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

Perhaps your mom likes women? Maybe she's planning on leaving your dad so in a way she's right, gays are destroying families.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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So you want her to be non-judgemental about the sex lives of others while you are being judgemental about her values?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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I want people to find shame in not being judgmental of bigotry

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

So if I disagree with you I'm a bigot...that's open minded.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

To clarify im not gay. This was brought up as an example of the type of thinking that keeps me from going to church. IE i told here i didnt like some of the viewpoints of the Christian church, ie church sponsored discrimination towards gays.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

If you support gay marriages then do you also support polygamy? I don't see how you can support one but not the other.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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How many openly gay posters are there on 2+2?


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I'm a closet-case hetero

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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If you support gay marriages then do you also support polygamy? I don't see how you can support one but not the other.

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One is giving a segment of society the same rights as everyone else. The other is illegal for all members of society.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

Lol at Wichita, you posted this just to have what you thought spat back at you. And I don't give two [censored] who wants to marry who.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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If you support gay marriages then do you also support terrorism? I don't see how you can support one but not the other.

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fyp

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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So if I disagree with you I'm a bigot...that's open minded.

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no, disagreeing with me doesn't make you a bigot. believing that gays shouldn't be allowed to get married makes you a bigot.

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So what do you say to the little girl who wants to ask her mom about her first muenstral cycle...oh wait she has two dads. I'm not anti gay I'm pro children. BTW i'm not really against gay marriage, it's the adoption I have a problem with.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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If you support gay marriages then do you also support polygamy? I don't see how you can support one but not the other.

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One is giving a segment of society the same rights as everyone else. The other is illegal for all members of society.

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The claim is clearly that the "segment of society" that is homosexual should be equal to the "segment of society" that practices polygamy. Both are frowned upon by many who are not in said "segment of society", and therefore, logically following, if the homosexual segment is to receive the same treatment as the hetero segment, what makes the polygamist segment bad? M+F = M+M = F+F = M+F+F.....

Not saying I agree with that statement, I'm just trying to logically follow. (I agree with gay marriage. I disagree with the way OP seems to have handled his conversation with his mother.)

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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Lol at Wichita, you posted this just to have what you thought spat back at you. And I don't give two [censored] who wants to marry who.

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Well i was just really frustrated by it obviously. Of course i wanted validation, but i also wanted to get other peoples opinions also.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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(I agree with gay marriage. I disagree with the way OP seems to have handled his conversation with his mother.)

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Jesus, I've never been able to handle a conversation with my mother.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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So what do you say to the little girl who wants to ask her mom about her first muenstral cycle...oh wait she has two dads. I'm not anti gay I'm pro children. BTW i'm not really against gay marriage, it's the adoption I have a problem with.

[/ QUOTE ] you must logically oppose single mothers and fathers, then, correct?

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

I would support a civil union but not gay marriage.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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So what do you say to the little girl who wants to ask her mom about her first muenstral cycle...oh wait she has two dads. I'm not anti gay I'm pro children. BTW i'm not really against gay marriage, it's the adoption I have a problem with.

[/ QUOTE ] you must logically oppose single mothers and fathers, then, correct?

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yep

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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So if I disagree with you I'm a bigot...that's open minded.

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That's not what I said at all. Bigotry is an unreasonable, unwavering belief in the superiority of one's opinions or beliefs over another's.

There's no foundation for the family values argument. Furthermore, there are plenty of straight couples that don't live up to the expectations of people like OP's mother. What about them? Should they not be allowed to have children? Do they need to go to counseling?

Disagreeing with me doesn't make someone a bigot. It just makes them different from me. Believing that they're better than someone else, for no reason at all, does make them a bigot.

I try to look for the ultimate emotion behind a person's arguments and opinions. So far, every argument I've heard against gay rights is based on fear. I'd be really interested to hear one based on compassion.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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If you support gay marriages then do you also support polygamy? I don't see how you can support one but not the other.

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One is giving a segment of society the same rights as everyone else. The other is illegal for all members of society.

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The claim is clearly that the "segment of society" that is homosexual should be equal to the "segment of society" that practices polygamy.

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What segment of American society legally practices polygamy?

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

If you let gays marry each other, pretty soon people are gonna want to marry their petz and stuff, yo!

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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If you support gay marriages then do you also support polygamy? I don't see how you can support one but not the other.

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One is giving a segment of society the same rights as everyone else. The other is illegal for all members of society.

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The claim is clearly that the "segment of society" that is homosexual should be equal to the "segment of society" that practices polygamy.

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What segment of American society legally practices polygamy?

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I think that is less of the point. We're getting into the area where we need to move this to politics, where OP cross-posted. Putting aside "choice vs. born that way", whereas polygamy is a choice and homosexuality is not, what is to say that two consenting adults, be they of the same sex or not, should be the only legally recognized relationship?

If we take this logic, the argument about "homosexuals are a segment of the population deserving of equal rights, polygamists are not" makes no sense really.

Its late and I'm probably not making much sense, I'll try to clarify if I need to. I'm really just playing devil's advocate here, anyways.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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How many openly gay posters are there on 2+2?

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Yo. I don't really post much though.

I've wondered about this myself, although I'd expect the number to be a much smaller percentage than the national average. Poker and posting on message boards doesn't really fit the gay stereotype.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

If you aren't gay, why the [censored] would you ever discuss this with your mother?

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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So if I disagree with you I'm a bigot...that's open minded.

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That's not what I said at all. Bigotry is an unreasonable, unwavering belief in the superiority of one's opinions or beliefs over another's.

There's no foundation for the family values argument. Furthermore, there are plenty of straight couples that don't live up to the expectations of people like OP's mother. What about them? Should they not be allowed to have children? Do they need to go to counseling?

Disagreeing with me doesn't make someone a bigot. It just makes them different from me. Believing that they're better than someone else, for no reason at all, does make them a bigot.

I try to look for the ultimate emotion behind a person's arguments and opinions. So far, every argument I've heard against gay rights is based on fear. I'd be really interested to hear one based on compassion.

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Ok, I disagree with you on this issue,but I respect your obviously well thought out opinion. That is all.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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If you aren't gay, why the [censored] would you ever discuss this with your mother?

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As an example of why i dont subscribe to the Christian worldview...

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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I would support a civil union but not gay marriage.

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lol. This always cracks me up.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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If you support gay marriages then do you also support polygamy? I don't see how you can support one but not the other.

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One is giving a segment of society the same rights as everyone else. The other is illegal for all members of society.

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The claim is clearly that the "segment of society" that is homosexual should be equal to the "segment of society" that practices polygamy.

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What segment of American society legally practices polygamy?

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I think that is less of the point.

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Well, it's the key point. Homosexuals are discriminated against. Polygamists aren't.

I haven't thought too much about polygamy, to tell you the truth. I don't really see it being illegal as an injustice, because its legality is applied to everyone. Marriage, on the other hand, is granted (along with lots of accompanying benefits) to one group of people but not another. I find that wrong.

edit: I'm also not saying I think polygamy should in fact be illegal. Just saying I haven't thought through the issue enough at this point

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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If you aren't gay, why the [censored] would you ever discuss this with your mother?

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As an example of why i dont subscribe to the Christian worldview...

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OK, that's not only closed-minded, that's also completely inaccurate.

Lots of Christians have no problem whatsoever with gay marriage. The question you were asked probably had to do with you bringing up something you knew would antagonize your mother intentionally, then sealing it all off by calling her a bigot. That is, unless you had no idea where she stood on this topic.

Re: Is not believing in gay rights biggoted?
 

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If you aren't gay, why the [censored] would you ever discuss this with your mother?

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As an example of why i dont subscribe to the Christian worldview...

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OK, that's not only closed-minded, that's also completely inaccurate.

Lots of Christians have no problem whatsoever with gay marriage. The question you were asked probably had to do with you bringing up something you knew would antagonize your mother intentionally, then sealing it all off by calling her a bigot. That is, unless you had no idea where she stood on this topic.

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The bible as well as most churches do not look favorably on homosexuality and gay rights. While this is not true for all churches, it is definately true for most ie focus on the family, is it not???