it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

the stack-sizes are awkward, how do I avoid?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $426.40
BB: $233.15
Hero (UTG): $197.00
CO: $189.65
BTN: $284.15

Reads: <font color="blue">none, c/r turn on the assumption he bets too much</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $7.00</font>, CO calls $7.00, 3 folds

Flop: ($17) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $17.00</font>, CO calls $17.00

Turn: ($51) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $21.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $78.00</font>, CO calls $57.00

River: ($207) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $95.00</font>, CO calls all-in for $87.65
Uncalled bet of $7.35 returned to Hero

Pot Size: $382.30 ($3 Rake)

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

er, think about the cr before you do it? and decide to lead instead?

don't like the flop pot here either, way more likely to fold worse than an ace, it focuses his range on hands better than yours.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

his flop calling range on this board is wide

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

I don't C-Bet here OOP, because you got a RIO flop. The c/r on the turn is even worse, because of RIO. Try to reach a cheap showdown, if that's not possible, get away from this hand whenever it's too expensive.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't C-Bet here OOP, because you got a RIO flop. The c/r on the turn is even worse, because of RIO. Try to reach a cheap showdown, if that's not possible, get away from this hand whenever it's too expensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this should be a cbet every time most likely. turn c/r isnt very good though. probably just lead turn. we arent worried about getting away from it right now, we are trying to extract value

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

RIO?

This line seems to be really good against players who play draws too aggressively

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't C-Bet here OOP, because you got a RIO flop. The c/r on the turn is even worse, because of RIO. Try to reach a cheap showdown, if that's not possible, get away from this hand whenever it's too expensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're not a mod of a nl strat forum are you?

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

[ QUOTE ]
RIO?

This line seems to be really good against players who play draws too aggressively

[/ QUOTE ]

if you put him on a draw then c/c turn c/c a dry river right? c/r just risks too much - if he has a real hand you're toast.

i'm in the bet turn camp though most of the time.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

i think after the turn,

c/c river &gt;&gt; shove

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

wtf is RIO?

Also, is the river for value? I don't see alot of hands you beat that have gotten this far. C/c'ing turn isn't horrible if you're trying to control the pot size and induce "value bets" from weaker hands.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

no stats on villain? i usually bet like $14 on the flop and just fire again on the turn 'safe' card against unknown here, folding to a raise. not too sure whats up with the c/r but if you have a read you didn't share it could be nice.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

I don't like the c/r on the turn. I know it's possible he might be on a diamond draw but the possibility that you are outkicked makes it a bad spot for the cr in my opinion.

I'd just c/c the turn and prob c/c the river. I like this move a lot more with AK/AQ FWIW

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

You've got to think about how you'd want the money to go in. This is not the way that should make you happy.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

rio = reversed implied odds

i b/f turn w/ block bet on river

something in $14 $24, $30

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

I agree with making it like 14 on the flop and B/F-ing the turn. Also I think c/Ring the turn is terrible.

Playing your hand straightforward gets you max value here. C/Ring just blows him off worse hands and maximizes your losses against better ones.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
er, think about the cr before you do it? and decide to lead instead?

don't like the flop pot here either, way more likely to fold worse than an ace, it focuses his range on hands better than yours.

[/ QUOTE ]his flop calling range on this board is wide

[/ QUOTE ]
even so, it would be even wider if you bet less, and even if it isn't, it really makes a big difference in terms of stack awkwardness on the river, no matter how you play it.

the stacks are pretty perfect for a bet flop 2/3, bet turn 2/3, c/f river, or some variant line that gets two 2/3 bets in and leaves plenty of room to not commit.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

if his flop range is so wide and he bets too much why dont u lead flop and turn then check river to him?

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

why are you checking the river to fold it?

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

getting a stack in on this board with your hand is probably not +EV, considering you only beat A3-A6, A8, and you have no read. what worse hands is he calling a river c/r with?

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

[ QUOTE ]
You've got to think about how you'd want the money to go in. This is not the way that should make you happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the purpose of the post, to illustrate how poorly I setup my bets.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

if our read is that he has a wide calling range and bets too much then im check calling the river, you don't think he fires the river on a missed draw?

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

A check-raise to $55 would have left $118 behind and a pot-size of $161.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

I puke at the cr.

As played just c/c river, atleast that way you maybe, maybe induce a bluff from something you beat ( missed fd).

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

i love the turn c/r

it'll fold out AJ/AQ always against a good player

very nice bluffing

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

[ QUOTE ]
i love the turn c/r

it'll fold out AJ/AQ always against a good player

very nice bluffing

[/ QUOTE ]

hes clearly not looking at this hand as a bluff

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i love the turn c/r

it'll fold out AJ/AQ always against a good player

very nice bluffing

[/ QUOTE ]

hes clearly not looking at this hand as a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]

that's why i was being ironical

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

I will definetely throw it away after he calls the check raise. I mean if he calls that raise what can you beat? He either made a terrible call with a flush draw or he has you beat with two pair, AK, set...

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i love the turn c/r

it'll fold out AJ/AQ always against a good player

very nice bluffing

[/ QUOTE ]

hes clearly not looking at this hand as a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]

that's why i was being ironical

[/ QUOTE ]

Even so, villain has AK/AQ like never in this spot.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

[ QUOTE ]
i love the turn c/r

it'll fold out AJ/AQ always against a good player

very nice bluffing

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Turn: ($51) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO bets $21.00

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly AJ/AQ, and clearly a good player

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

i think its extremely thin, but against this oppenent i still think it is for value even with the river bet.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

You all draw conclusions that villain is good and a cr/river push/whatever is a nice play from just his actions in this hand? Come on, he's uknown.

A c/r is 100% fps and spew and it's so discusting and terrible. Just bet it man.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

Good,

When information is provided to you, use it. Thedustbustr is, you can, too.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

Maulik

I get that Thedustbustr were ironic, I reffered mostly to luckybackon.

Re: it is a mess, and i did create it; tpmk
 

the good,

he's unknown until he bitchbets the turn. then, we know he sucks and probably calls too much and doesn't have much of a hand anyway, and we valuetown.